Are NFTs here to stay? That’s what we’re going to discuss in this insightful conversation live at the DeFi Summit. Eathan Janney, Jeff Kelley & Josh Kriger are joined by guests Scottie Siu, the cofounder of 101 and NFT Social Marketplace Platform; and Toufi Saliba , the CEO of Toda.Network and the author of the TODA/IP internet protocol; and Juergen Hoebarth the cofounder at Fortuna Digital Custody, as they tackle NFTs, Blockchain and the future of the space. They talk about NFT adoption, interoperability and the space moving forward. This conversation gives us a glimpse at the NFT and blockchain space and how the present will impact the future.

Listen to the podcast here:

Live from DeFi Summit: The Future of NFTs Panel with Toufi Saliba (Toda.Network), Juergen Hoebarth (Fortuna Digital Custody) & Scottie Siu (Orichal Partners)

Our expert panel features guests, Scottie Siu, Toufi Saliba and Juergen Hoebarth. Scottie Siu is the Cofounder of 101 and NFT Social Marketplace Platform. He has advised many Tier One artists, global entertainment companies, festival event organizers and IPS. He is a Cofounder and Managing Partner at Orichal Partners of blockchain and digital asset innovations research and analytics firm. He is an experienced financial professional with years of experience at leading global financial institutions. Toufi Saliba is the CEO of and the author of the TODA/IP internet protocol. The protocol enables every ledger-based blockchain to scale to billions of users and handle millions of on-chain transactions per second at a near-zero cost. He built deep experience in AI and cybersecurity through his previous ventures as the CEO or board member of various projects, including the IEEE. Juergen Hoebarth is the Cofounder at Fortuna Digital Custody. Juergen first found his way to cryptocurrencies in 2014 and is now Managing Director of Tokenization Limited, the world’s premier business development and strategy consultancy for tokenization. It is a decentralized global technology, blockchain and tokenization advisory, marketing and consulting syndicate. Juergen speaks on a variety of blockchain and tokenization topics, and promotes the sustainable development of the ecosystem of digital assets. What a crew we have here. It’s great to see you all and talk to you.

It’s great to have you. Let’s get down to it. We’re about half a year into the cycle, and NFTs have started to hit their stride in the mainstream. Are they here to stay?

From a technology perspective, the foundational elements of any currency that not a lot of people tell you about are that they are NFTs. Even Bitcoin’s smallest unit is called Satoshi, and by construct is an NFT. I’m extremely excited about NFT because it should have been the beginning of the entire crypto. If I were to go back in time and tell planet Earth, “Can we do something different?” We would have started NFT back in 2006, but the entire war started with fungible things and now we are in the non-fungible. I’m extremely excited and I think everything on this planet will be NFT one way or another. NFT is the way to go and this is the beginning.

Scottie, what do you think?

NFT is going to change the way that we operate because we started with cryptocurrency. The majority of the adoptions that we’re seeing is trading on cryptocurrency. The next wave of adoption to blockchain as we knead through NFTs is not just representing an artwork, there’s so much more potential to it. We just started. For me, in the future, NFT represent a unique identity. Each person has a wall that represents who you are. They represent probably your membership and your private access to content. There’s so much more, but right now, we’re thinking about it as such a surface. We’re putting a digital power on top and then we call it NFT. It should be thought of as a packaging layer rather than the product itself. There’s so much more to it. I think that the ecosystem itself, even us as the pioneers in the ecosystem are trying to figure out how do we incorporate and integrate the ownership of physical-digital assets onto the internet presence as a whole and then use smart contracts on top of it to automate different processes. We can go on more about this, but this is the beginning.

We’re building the road as we’re driving on it. There’s no doubt about that. Juergen, what about you? What are your thoughts?

In 2017, the people talked about it, but no one understands what it is because the entry barrier was too high. The reason why the entry barrier got lower through this concept where NFTs were used in the art context, but this is simply the beginning. I’m involved in projects where NFTs try to get utilized much more. You can think of it as Scottie mentioned it. NFT is everything that can represent value. It can be a digital companion for your limited sneaker edition as a certificate of ownership. It can even be your degree from a university can be an NFT. Imagine this is one of my most laughed examples. Even the ownership of your flat and your car can be an NFT. NFTs are a very interesting topic. If you compare it with the gaming industry, what we see in NFTs now is the pong level, and so we will see what comes next.

Let me piggyback right off of that because there are many flashy NFT projects that get a ton of love from the media, most notably for big brands or companies or influencers, entertainers that already have a big following. What are the important NFT projects or use cases that we don’t hear about as much but should? Scottie, I’d love to hear from you on that.

NFT social is something that’s been developing under the radar. In the past months, we see a lot of NFT marketplaces. This may be a bold statement, but we got it all wrong. I say that because most of the artists are selling content online. If you think about it and how we exchange and consume content, we exchanged them freely on social media or YouTube or Instagram. You’re posting pictures and drawing your followers of interests to the content that you’re creating. That’s how it works. We should be using NFT to apply on top of it to own it. Now, we’re going back where NFT marketplaces require you to spend unnecessary resources, time and money to mint an NFT hoping someone will buy it.

NFTs are going to change the way that we operate because we started with cryptocurrency. Click To Tweet

In the future, we will start to see a platform that is going to combine social media or content platforms, mixing that into an NFT environment where people can buy things that they like for economic future, value, or collectible value. You can think of Instagram or YouTube where you like a video and buy it from the owner. The royalty component comes into play rather than like eBay store where, “I’m going to create a file. I’m going to create a video. Hopefully, you guys like it. I spent a lot of money minting it.” There’s a lot of oversupply at the market right now. The next wave that we start to see is the evolution of that marketplace.

When we think about the social side of NFTs, do you think the incumbents, the Instagrams, Twitters of the world that will be leading the way on that front or do you think there going to be a new entrance that brings a platform that’s built around the idea of social NFTs to the marketplace?

Someone’s going to come out. That’s something that we’re doing. We may not get everything right on the first try, but we don’t have to invent the wheel here. Social media already works, simply allowing you to purchase or convert content to NFT. At the point of sale, when someone is interested in your content and owns it forever is already a good use case. I think that Instagram and YouTube may catch up and realize the potential of NFT, but that’s probably going to be a little bit of a time. As with any innovation and disruptive innovation is going to be right and efficient, the incumbent that the big player is going to take a little bit of time to adopt. I think that they will start to see that coming, but we’re going to start seeing some smaller players developing these use cases. The big players come into partnership with them.

Mark Zuckerberg shared a post on Facebook that they’re going to open up their creator economy and not charge creators as much as Apple. That’s nice, but that feels a little bit off-topic in a sense of how much innovation is happening. It seems like they are becoming a little bit of the dinosaur in the room.

You also think about it two steps further, and my view is we have a lot of these social media platform, which is centralized. They’re a gatekeeper and holding your contents. You can’t even take your followers or your content away from the platform. What blockchain could represent a future? I don’t know how long that may take. Our connections are represented through wallet connections. Me holding a social token of yours and vice versa. That representation, connection could also mean a tradable subscription to private contents.

If I want a channel and you guys have a show channel, and if I want to subscribe to it, I’m holding a token. If I want to own a part of your show and your show is represented in NFT, you can take the NFT file off from Apple, iTunes to another platform. Your connection with your followers wouldn’t be tied into one ecosystem on Twitter or Instagram, so I do see that in the future. When you asked me that question, “Are the big players coming into the ecosystem?” it’s possible, but the ultimate goal if we are to go even further is decentralizing the existing model and YouTube.

I wanted to jump in here, if you don’t mind. You brought three fabulous points. The last one, which is decentralization is our only weapon to win against the big giants. The reason why I tell you that because they don’t get it. They think by centralizing things, it’s the power to them until they get to a border of a certain nation that restricts them from doing certain business. They’re like, “That’s what you meant by the power of decentralization.” That’s the weapon that we have and will win against all of those big corporations. The other two have them better than what we do, but we will win on the other two you’ve mentioned, Scottie. One of them is the cost. It is prohibitive for NFTs, but that’s going to go down by over 99.9999%.

I guarantee you, and I know a lot of projects working on that. The other one is the actual interoperability that you’ve mentioned, which we also lack, but they lack too. The interoperability is like if you have an NFT on Ethereum and then someone else has got that NFT on like, “I’ll go around or Avalanche or whatnot.” It’s still problematic, but that’s going to all go down on a network as well. I’m extremely optimistic of what’s happening in the crypto market and I feel that we’ve nailed it better than ever.

Juergen, what are your thoughts? Do you agree that social is the next step for NFTs?

I’m in this industry since 2013, more or less 2014 and full-time since 2015, 2016. The challenge that we have here is decentralization. The longer I believe in it and want to have it, it’s a little bit from a utopia. The issue is to think about how large the NFT space is. It’s not large. Let’s assume the largest marketplace is 150,000 people. A normal app on Google App has 1 million app followers and downloads. We need to be a little bit realistic in the universe as well, but let’s say this way, it shows an alternative to what is existing. Josh mentioned it very well. This topic is the creator economy. NFTs are hard to say that we were in a social economy and we are going in the direction of a creator economy.

NFT DeFi Summit | DeFi Summit

DeFi Summit: From a technology perspective, the foundational elements of any currency that not a lot of people tell you about is that they are NFTs.


This is my perception. In the last years or decades, we have seen digitalization. Now, we are going to tokenization. In digitalization, it was existing business models, and concepts were put one to one on the internet, but the advantage layer of digital was not used. This is what we can do now. Imagine it like this endless discussion. How can I prove that this file is unique to me? It was a discussion for years for music files and image files. Now with NFTs, you can prove it. You were the first one who was uploading it or was posting it. You can prove it, which is very interesting. We are here in the early stages. We need to take care of in one way that I sometimes will bring a very funny example.

I want to have decentralization happen, but I’m not sure if they’re going to let it happen. The challenge is we all believe in a more self-regulated, self-govern reality, which is perfect, but in another way, what do we do if we get blocked? I had a discussion with someone who was selling successful NFTs in the European Union. You would not like to know how he has trouble now with tax authorities because he was selling NFTs. It’s unimaginable. The challenge that we have here is to which frameworks can we use. You’re an artist. You start to sell your NFTs. It sells for $5, $10, $20. You don’t care about it. Suddenly you’re selling NFTs for $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 a month, so let’s do this for 3 to 6 months. We have sold $200,000 or Euros worth of NFTs. Guess what your bank account and the tax dives are saying? This is like bringing and making it so easy to publish and sell content that brings on the asset a large challenge, which we still don’t know how we can solve. Everything would be solved in the preferred decentralized manner, but the challenge we are having is, “How do we deal with the rest of it?”

This is an unprecedented time in our global economy where this is possible. It’s pushing the limits of regulatory tax, commerce standards. I think what’s amazing is Jeff, Eathan and I have had some diverse guests on our show so far. It is this constant theme of empowering younger folks that may not have other opportunities to make money. They’re making money doing what they love, whether it’s creating games that they love or art or music. Some of these adolescents and teenagers take care of their families with the money they’re generating from NFTs and something about that feels so right to me and so much closer to a perfect world.

This is the funny part. This idea that decentralization is directly person to person, so why do I need the marketplace? The marketplace is the easiest concept to understand because the people understand the digital marketplaces. I’m involved with a company, which is doing a development for exchanges and a bigger blockchain project. You cannot imagine how many inquiries are coming each week. We want to build an NFT marketplace. We get 4 or 5 inquiries a day with someone who wants to build an NFT marketplace. Sometimes I was making this joke, “There are more artists than collectors,” which is true.

I assume by making that joke, there are more NFT marketplaces than collectors out there. We all know how the industry works. If it will look something like the open sea, an entity marketplace but very open, everyone has to niche. Even if we look at super or something like this, there are 5,000 to 6,000 people only, and that’s nothing. You mentioned like hundreds of NFT marketplaces, which are developed as everyone here says it as well. It’s not a challenge to have not an NFT marketplace. We need to think about what can be done more? How can it be done differently? How can the artists directly on his website sell something? How can the artists directly interact with NFTs in a very easy way? This is more or less a challenge.

The future of NFTs is the evolution of the social layer, the continued empowerment of creators and some form of regulatory clarity.

Everyone knows Deviant Art platform. Imagine this is 1 million artists, and if they have still not discovered NFTs and are all digital NFTs, they will understand this concept very easily. This company which knows how to unlock these creators on the hands-on dribble, on the Deviant Art, this is the next big march. This is the next big shot. For me, what I find interesting in NFT space, it is another space where people come into this cryptocurrency universe, but the entry point is not the investing speculation part. This is what I like very much. I was very early in the variable involved. It was very interesting when you saw the communities.

Normally the telegram communities around the project are only about price, and then rebel was about people sharing artwork and that got the price because we were like, “What are those people talking? Why do I care?” It was very interesting to see the different dynamics of communities. The media was good for supporting this like NBA top shots is very centralized. It’s a very nice marketing deck to get a lot of people into the market, but it was very bad at that because what’s the cost of owning a special moment like $20,000, $50,000 when I don’t own anything? I don’t own the right on the image. I don’t get royalties if someone uses that image, so what is it? It’s a very expensive collectible. From a moment, which I can watch as well on YouTube because all the NBA moments are one-on-one as the same on YouTube. I don’t own it. It’s like what do we own there? I’m saying I get art very much but in this case, it’s like they’ll be crazy for me.

Speaking of the complexity and the legitimacy around this and how we trust various things. I’m curious, besides the people in this panel, what resources might you guys look at for insights around what’s next in NFT and crypto or what’s going on right now? What’s important? Scottie, I’m curious if you’d be willing to start answering that one?

At the point of sale when someone is interested in your content and owns it forever, it's already a good use case. Click To Tweet

I’m sure it’s similar to everybody. It’s talking to different people, especially those people outside of the blockchain industry. I’ve been speaking through different DJs globally, different entertainment companies. I wasn’t supposed to say this, but nothing official. We’re working on it anyway, but we’ve been talking officially. Talking to different IPs, brands around the world. The surprising thing is they are very interested in incorporating blockchain into the business model. We have a huge opportunity here if we get to solutions right. We have found one niche sector that can apply blockchain or even use NFTs in the business model, especially in the entertainment industry. We had a music NFT panel.

They have a lot of influence. Social media has a lot of influence the more we are connected to the virtual world and whatnot. If you’re talking to people in the actual industry, you start to figure out some of the problems out there in the world. With us being in the blockchain space for a few years or for however how long you have been, you can start to connect the dots. For me, I could read about media and all that stuff, but the best resources talk to people in the industry.

It sounds almost like a software developer’s attitude or a founder’s attitude of, “Let me go to the customers.” You would call them customers at this point, but what are they going to want? What are they going to need? That’s going to be the next thing that’s going on. That’s a great answer.

That’s one reason we started the show, Edge of NFT. A lot of our readers tell us it’s like having a seat at the table with the insiders. Being in the conversation and having those conversations is so important. Anything is possible here for those at this conference, want to create and this is their first time getting into the mix. The message I want everyone to know is to get in the conversation and start creating.

It was brought up a few times earlier, this idea of the creator economy. I remember Cell-Con having a little talk-up on YouTube or something that I watched many years ago. It could be even 18, 20 years ago about the future being the creator economy. This development of blockchain and NFT is a huge part of that. In essence, the economy, if it’s a creator economy, it becomes you are a part of it, whether you like it or not. You have to be a creator. You have to co-create this. There’s a level of responsibility. That reminds me of Burning Man. They have a principle of radical participation. You are not there to watch the show. You are there to co-create it. Did you have anything to add on this topic or the other topic where you look for good information or insights on what’s coming?

I want to say something that also Juergen alluded to earlier. There are only 150,000 people in the certain marketplace or whatnot. This is where the opportunity. There are 8 billion people on the planet. Guaranteed every single one of them is going to be using NFTs daily, but they don’t know it. Not a lot of people know the power of NFT. The law says that this currency is fungible, but by construct, it is non-fungible. It’s been around us through the entire time. This is for the first time that technology is coming in and telling the world, “We are bringing in NFT marketplaces for people to start representing whatever they are creating and selling it.”

What if the taxman comes in and says, “You owe this much taxes,” so what? Every business if they’re selling a lot, they owe so much taxes. That’s great. If the taxman coming in and knocking on your door because you’re selling an NFTs, that’s a good indication that you are selling. This is like the beginning of what’s yet to come. This is 1992 for the World Wide Web. I’ve said it before a couple of years ago, when people said, “It is 1992.” I said, “Nope, it was 1989 for crypto,” and now I’m telling you, “It’s 1992.” Wait and see, mark my words.

The money that is being issued everywhere. Bitcoin on its core and every Satoshi is traceable. It has the equivalent of a unique number, so anything of value has by construct has to have a unique number somehow. The NFT words that you see, the NFT ledger-based, blockchains or whatnot, which we’ve alluded to earlier, is that there is a ledger. They’re telling it is unique globally, but imagine at some point all of those ledgers, they figure out that there is something that is Earth space. It’s unique to the entire planet Earth.

This is the future. You do one thing. You present your Mona Lisa with something that you cannot before. It is Earth-base. It is as unique to planet Earth as anything. This is where I see that the future of NFTs is going to shape up the entire World Wide Web, the entire crypto. I kid you not. I’ve never been that excited about this. They know me. They know I’ve been in crypto before crypto. I’ve had cryptocurrencies 2006. You can look me up and can find these things. This is the beginning of the world of crypto to make it to everybody on the planet.

NFT DeFi Summit | DeFi Summit

DeFi Summit: The marketplace is the easiest concept to understand because people are understanding the digital marketplaces.


This is more than everything will be an NFT, which is already a distinction.

We are getting to represent it digitally and make it transfer. Some of the companies, which you alluded to earlier, like the video games for example, we’re getting a lot of video game companies that are looking into the NFTs. I can’t disclose who, but 2 of the top 10 are looking into how a video game instead of pre-purchase to the kid that is going to buy for $11 and later on is going to be for $80. Can this be an NFT? The answer is yes. The kid will buy it for $11. Can we sell it to another kid instead of calling the company and saying, “I want to return it, mom didn’t allow it or whatnot?” It reduces a lot of friction like how we should return it, but not it’s sitting in that NFT.

When the software is released inside the NFT, it got enough cost on a lock. That’s a single software. The license is right there and you bought it for $11. You’re free to sell it for $13 or $9. It’s up to you. No regulator is going to regulate. That already exists in the world. I’m not here to challenge regulators. I’ve already challenged regulators like a couple of years ago when they asked me to go and educate them on the blockchain. You’re also a speaker in AI. Now it is going to replace a lot of jobs. What do you think about blockchain? What is it supposed to replace? I’m like, “ It’s your job as regulators.” We are building technology that is regulated. There are a lot of scams or whatnot. At the end of the day, we’re building technology that brings it to the people. It adds value to the people. It reduces all of that friction that regulators add into the equation rather than walks in the park instead of no regulations if it’s suffering later.

The beautiful part is that the ecosystem, which we’re in here, doesn’t need to rely on the other ecosystem. As you say, Toufi, if it’s good or bad, the scams, yes, whatever, but in a way, imagine if you give to 1,000 people each $1 million, out of these 1,000 people, 990 will most likely make some rubbish, but 10 will make out something awesome of that $1 million they got because they’ve got enabled. I see it very similar here in this space. If the future of NFTs is they are not called NFTs because the word is not the perfect word, to be honest. I hope we are finding a better word. Maybe it’s this creator economy, whatever it is.

This is what I’m thinking as well. It’s like the future is bright particularly on that topic. I am 100% agreeing that it was always creative people who were always bringing that option. In this case, it will be the same thing. In the beginning, if the internet was popular because you can upload pictures and show pictures like Flicker, and a lot of people are using Flicker that were creatives. Here as well, so the power of creative people is much stronger than of the financial people because more people create something than people who trade, never underestimate it. I’m thinking that if you’re speaking about this, it will have more importance. Non-fungible tokens will be more important than fungible tokens. This is my fixed prediction or my belief. How will it play out? We don’t know. Even if the whole cryptocurrency would get bent non-fungible tokens will survive because of the other ways. We don’t need speculative assets when we like a token or whatever when you’re talking about NFTs.

We do this fun little thing where we want to get to know you as human beings as well. We want everyone that’s reading this to get to know you. We have this segment called Quick Hitters. Jeff, why don’t you tell us more about that?

Edge Quick Hitters are a fun and quick way to get to know you a little better. We’re looking for short, single word or few-word responses, but feel free to expand if you get the urge. We normally do ten for each guest, but given the size of the panel, we’ll only ask three questions. Scottie, let’s start with you. What is the first thing you remember ever selling in your life?

I was in third grade. I think it was nine years old. I was selling new and old toys between classmates, so collectibles, physical collectibles toys, stationaries. I was making $20 US a week. I got in trouble after three weeks.

There are many troublemaking young entrepreneurs that come onto the show.

The law says that cryptocurrency is fungible, but by construct it is non-fungible. Click To Tweet

I didn’t have enough money to get the toy that I want, so I trade up for it, so I was making a market. That was the first thing I sell.

Toufi, how about you?

Bow ties, I used to make bow ties as a kid. I used to sell them. I fired my first employee, my brother. I replaced him with someone else who was a tailor and made loads of money that summer. I was twelve years old, so there was a lot of fun.

Juergen, how about you?

The first thing I sold was toys, more likely houses in the neighborhood. I was collecting their toys and putting them up for sale like a yard sale. It was not that successful there, but then later on, in real business. I started to do it in the early days with eBay like selling cell phones. It was one of the first things. I was living in Austria. I was importing them bulk, like 10 to 20 pieces. If you import 10 to 20 pieces, you get your phone for free.

Question number two, if you could pass on one personality trait of yours to the next generation, what would it be? Toufi, let’s start with you.

Innovation, if I were to put it in one word, and it’s something that I’m bragging about what I’m good at and I’m bragging about what I’m not good at, so I will not pass on my operation skills, administration skills, HR skills, you name it. When it comes to innovation, if I were to say one thing, I certainly would like to pass this on.

Juergen, how about you?

Being curious, curiosity, like being always open and even digging into things like everyone was doing defy? I was doing NFTs.

Scottie, you’re up next.

I’m quite comfortable stepping outside the boundaries, thinking and trying to be different. As a kid and until now, I always want to do something different and try to challenge the status quo. When I left the finance industry in 2017, I got laughed at a lot about moving into cryptocurrency, where it was like money laundering and then it’s all vaporware and things like that. I’m the type of guy who would jump off the plane and do it with a bunch of jumps and all that stuff so keep trying new things.

NFT DeFi Summit | DeFi Summit

DeFi Summit: This is the future. You do one thing, you present your Mona Lisa with something that cannot before it is first base, it is as unique to planet Earth as anything.


Last question, question number three. What are you going to do next after the show? Juergen, let’s start with you.

I’m going to bed and watching TV.

Scottie, how about you?

All of my friends are outside drinking, so maybe I’ll join them, maybe I’ll go home. We’ll see.

Toufi, how about you?

This is one of the things that I’m working on. This is one of the binary retreated representations that can make it easier for folks to understand the power of uniqueness. If you were to go down and you have like a parent here. Let’s say that this is the parent and it goes back to back structure for NFTs. This is another thing that shows you how you can get uniqueness using a binary tree structure, which is like one of the foundational things in computer science, but it’s a lot of fun when you build it on a network. I’ve built out a network in the past. I’m doing that for one of the projects. I got halfway through. I can’t wait to get back into it and finish it.

Toufi, that chart looks like the one that we have like drawing out the map. Talking about NFT social because I don’t know how we talked about wallets representing our social connections and how people are connected through wallet in the future. It could be one of the most important social profiles that you have. We don’t need Instagram and Facebook. We need wallets that connect through tokens holding on each other’s tokens, and that chart looks exactly what we have on the whiteboard.

Let’s talk about one of the hot topics in the news. Does that work?

We’ve got a survey here. Only 20% of Americans familiar with NFTs, 4 million have used them from a survey. This is reported on Yahoo News. I’m so connected to it sometimes I feel like I have no sense of how few people, how many people, whatever, everybody I know knows about it, but I assume that a lot of people don’t know about it. What have been your experience with the exposure level and how much you come and do contact with that, Scottie?

Even if cryptocurrency got bent, non-fungible tokens will survive. Click To Tweet

Nonstop every week, literally artists that I wouldn’t be able to be in touch with. I have the privilege of talking to them now. I’m talking about Tier One stars coming to me to talk about NFT. It’s been a cool experience where it fell in my lap. I talked to different people in the industry to try to figure out solutions and try to understand more. All of a sudden, people are interested to learn about NFT. My friends and I’m talking about singers, DJs and what have you movie stars from around the world are trying to learn about it.

I think even that 4%, even us, me, I admit I’m still trying to figure out what the future holds, a lot of stuff that we talked about at the future of NFT panel recovers a lot of that. NFT represents the surface level of it. We’re putting things on an NFT is similar to back in the days where we came about hearing about the internet. I opened a website. I put my photos on and information on a website. The true understanding of it is how we can turn that website? How can we turn the NFT into Uber, YouTube, social network, into eCommerce, automating certain things with the internet. This is the decade for NFT.

Another interesting thing that was said from there is at 4.1 million Americans have bought or sold an NFT. Maybe we touched upon it earlier, probably a certain percentage of people who are buying or selling them and don’t necessarily know that they’re NFTs as well. You were the one that brought that, Toufi?

By definition, it’s probably something more like 100% of NFT, but 4.1 million is legit. That’s a big number. It’s a big country and whatnot, but that shows some serious early traction, in my opinion. What do you guys think?

For me, the number is too high.

You’ve mentioned earlier 150,000 users for one of them, so you’re telling 4.1 million, it’s a good indication that it’s going up. You’re referring to crypto-based NFTs. Toufi said that by 2030, everything around you and everyone will be cryptofide. It would be NFT one way or another. People don’t know it yet. What you are walking on right now, it takes every square centimeter. What you’re walking on the square centimeter has geo coordinates. That is an NFT, like it or not, but it’s an NFT. There are a lot of things around us that are NFTs, but we don’t know it. They’re becoming exchangeable. Why is it cryptofide? It makes it super secure. It makes a single owner in any block of time. That’s what we want. It’s self-regulated. That’s the future.

That’s a great note to wrap things up for the final session of the first day of DeFi Summit in our show. We’d love to understand where the readers can learn more about you. How do they get ahold of you, Scottie? How do they reach you?

Our Project 101, Stand for One Up One will be launching soon. Hopefully, I can share more materials and website for you, guys.

Juergen, what about you?

NFT DeFi Summit | DeFi Summit

DeFi Summit: We don’t need Instagram and Facebook. We need wallets that connect to each other, three tokens holding on each other’s tokens and that chart looks exactly what we have on the whiteboard.


It’s easy, search for my name on Google.

Toufi, you go?

You can search my name, but I get a lot of spam, about 5,000 per day, so it’s impossible to find me. I find one method that has been consistent is on LinkedIn. If somebody messaged me on LinkedIn, it’s much easier to filter because I’ve built my filter on top of LinkedIn. If it’s legit, I’m able to see it. If anybody wants to reach out on LinkedIn, send me a message, and I’m happy to respond.

We have an announcement to make regarding Edge of NFT. This is our official launch. We’ve been at this for a couple of months in beta mode. We have a ton of cool things coming up too. If you visit, sign up for our newsletter and follow us on Twitter, you’ll be the first to know about all special drops, contests, giveaways and insider news. We’re also in the process of creating a Dow that gives our readers an opportunity to co-create the future with us and take partial ownership of what we’re doing and building together. We’re not quite ready to share all the specifics yet. If you sign up for our newsletter, you’ll be able to get in the mix and jump in from the beginning and be eligible for the Edge of NFT private discord, tons of great information. It is going to be coming out, so stay tuned.

We officially reached the outer limits at the Edge of NFTs. This concludes the first day of the DeFi Summit. Thanks for exploring with us. We’ve got space for more adventures on this starship, so invite your friends and recruit some cool strangers to make this journey also much better. How? Go to iTunes right now, rate us and say something cool, and then go to to dive further down the rabbit hole. Team, it’s such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much.

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