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We dive into the journey of Canadian artist Trevor Jones, who seamlessly blends traditional art with modern technology, including NFTs and augmented reality. Join us as we explore his innovative projects, the legendary castle parties, and the transformative impact of the Bitcoin Angel on his career.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Transition from Traditional to Digital Art: Trevor Jones discusses his journey from traditional art to embracing digital mediums, highlighting the pivotal moment when he began incorporating QR codes into his paintings to engage audiences in new ways.
- Challenges and Opportunities in the Art World: He reflects on the initial pushback he faced from the traditional art community when introducing innovative concepts, emphasizing the importance of perseverance and staying true to one's artistic vision.
- Community and Philanthropy through Events: The conversation touches on the legendary castle parties Trevor organizes, which serve as a platform for building relationships within the art community while also raising funds for charity, showcasing the intersection of art, technology, and social impact.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- "I decided that art would save me. Art would provide all the answers to those existential questions that I was asking myself at that time." - Trevor Jones (00:04:43)
- "I had to learn throughout that process that, you know, focus on the art, focus on what's important to me, focus on what I'm excited about." Trevor Jones (00:31:25)
- "It's important for artists who are listening to not try to just jump on the bandwagon." Trevor Jones (00:46:07)
For the full transcript, see further below.
People and Resources Mentioned:
- Trevor Jones Art Webiste
- Trevor Jones @trevorjonesart
- Trevor Jones LinkedIn
- Jordan Peterson Website
- The Bitcoin Angel Website
- Maggie’s Archives Website
- José Delbo Website
- Apollo Entertainment @ApolloNft
- Bitcoin conference Website
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About Our Guest:
- Bio: Trevor Jones is a Canadian artist renowned for his innovative fusion of traditional art techniques with cutting-edge digital technologies. Based in Scotland, Trevor has made a significant impact in the Web3 and NFT digital art space, particularly known for his augmented reality innovations and high-profile portraits, including one of Jordan Peterson. His groundbreaking NFT, the Bitcoin Angel, grossed over $3.2 million, marking a pivotal moment in his career.
- Website: Trevor Jones Art
- Twitter:@trevorjonesart
- Instagram: @trevorjonesart
- Facebook: Trevor Jones Art
- LinkedIn: Trevor Jones
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Full Episode Transcript:
Trevor Jones: Hi, this is Trevor Jones, and my work blends traditional techniques with modern tech. You're tuned in to the Edge of NFT, your modern choice for insights on cutting-edge art and technology. Keep listening.
Josh Kriger: Hey, Web3 curious listeners, stay tuned for today's episode, where we'll uncover how Trevor Jones went from canvas to crypto, transitioning from traditional art to becoming one of the most innovative forces in the Web3 and NFT digital art space. Also, discover the story behind the legendary castle parties and their impact on the digital art community, and what one of the most legendary artists in the Web3 space considers his most prized possession. All this and more on the Edge of NFT. Cue the intro. Welcome to Edge of NFT, the podcast created by Jeff Kelly, Ethan Janney, and myself, Josh Krieger, featuring a variety of top-notch guests and other hosts. It's another production of the Edge of Company, a quickly growing media ecosystem empowering the pioneers of Web3 tech and culture and responsible for other groundbreaking endeavors like Outer Edge Innovation Festival in LA and Riyadh. Today's episode features a very special guest, Trevor Jones, a Canadian artist who melds traditional art with cutting-edge digital technologies known for augmented reality innovations, high-profile portraits like Jordan Peterson, and groundbreaking NFTs such as the Bitcoin Angel, which grossed over $3.2 million. Trevor Jones' art blends historic artistry with modern digital techniques, creating immersive, multi-sensory experiences that push the boundaries of conventional canvas through collaborations, charity events like the Castle Party, which we'll talk about, and upcoming projects like his Bitcoin Angel bronze sculpture and a new Steampunk series. So lots going on in the world of Trevor, and we'll bring him out and start the conversation. Trevor, great to have you on the show.
Trevor Jones: How's it going, Josh? Nice to be able to speak with you.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, likewise. And thanks for joining us a little on the late side from Scotland. How is it over there right now?
Trevor Jones: It's all right. I mean, because we're so high up north, it's still light outside. And actually today was a nice day, sunny, it wasn't raining for a change. So yeah, it's been a good day, although I've been inside most of the time working.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I was just in the northern part of Northern America, North America in Vancouver Island for my birthday. And, you know, it was beautiful. I got to experience rain and sort of, you know, the lush forest and woods and stuff. I'm sure you're used to all that.
Trevor Jones: I actually grew up in BC. So that's kind of my old stomping grounds, but then I went on a backpacking trip when I was about 25 around the world. And three years later, I ended up in Scotland and got stuck. And here I am 20, 25 years later. Very cool.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, we're going to chat about that a little bit. But yeah, I mean, you do such interesting stuff in space. And it's a true honor to have you on the show. Thanks to your team for reaching out and, you know, looking forward to this conversation. But given the nature of your art, I wanted to just sort of ask, you know, when you were growing up in Canada, what were your dreams like? Did you sort of have dreams where you were thinking about creating art that people can literally step into? Was that part of like, you know, the early sort of genesis of all this?
Trevor Jones: Absolutely not. I wish I could say yes, but absolutely not. I always enjoyed art, like most kids. I was good at it. I think I had dreams of being an artist up until maybe eight or nine years old, and then I moved on to the next thing, whatever that was. And I moved to Vancouver from the little village. I grew up in a place called Lumbee with a population around 1,200 at the time. And I decided I wanted to be a rock star. So I moved to Vancouver when I was 18, failed miserably, came crawling back when I was about 20. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I just kind of bounced around all over the place. And that's when I left to go traveling, and I was about 25, 26, to Australia. and 1999 ended up in Scotland. I was working hospitality for the most part, just kind of working my way around the world and getting jobs wherever I could. I had a bit of a crossroads when I hit my early 30s here in Scotland and I, for whatever reason, I have no idea, I decided that art would save me. Art would provide all the answers to those existential questions that I was asking myself at that time. And I decided to become an artist and went to a small art school to do a foundation year, and then ended up going to Edinburgh College of Art and Edinburgh University the next year for a five-year program, a fine art program, kind of mixed between drawing and painting at the college and studying history of art at the university. So yeah, it never started off as planning on being an artist, but here I am.
Josh Kriger: Well, clearly, you had creativity in your veins, just trying to figure out the right medium to express it. Were you sort of behind the scenes on the drums, or were you the singer in your short-lived music career?
Trevor Jones: I was the bassist, actually. And thank God they didn't have like, you know, America's Got Talent or Britain's Got Talent at that time because I thought I was a good singer. But then I listened to myself back and I hear myself now and I'm the absolute most horrific singer in the world. So, yeah, it's probably a good thing I never ended up following through on my music career.
Josh Kriger: There's some sort of art project in this, though, at some point.
Trevor Jones: I'm not sure exactly what, but... You know, the funny thing is actually, I was just talking to my wife, Violet, and she was asking me literally just two days ago, she said, you know, Trev, all you do is art. You know, you're at the studio, you work, work, work, you just focus on art, talk about art, talk about your career, talk about what's happening. She's like, you know, you need to find a hobby and what would you like to do? And I had literally no idea. And she said, why don't you pick up that bass guitar? It's still there. I still have it in the house here. And start up that old man blues band that I always talked about doing. But you never know, maybe when I'm 67 years old, I'll pick up the bass again and start playing some blues in some old pubs around Scotland.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, you never know. That's really cool. Well, I definitely have to get over to Scotland sooner than later. So if you invite me to your concert, I'll probably show up. So absolutely. So let's talk a little bit more about your career. You went from traditional canvases to creating digital masterpieces. What was that moment where you're like, I can paint things that other people might think are impossible. Like I can do crazy stuff. What sparked that transition to totally going outside the box?
Trevor Jones: So yeah, like I said, I was 38 when I graduated from art college. I had my first exhibition, a gallery exhibition at about 40. And it was moderately successful. I made enough to pay my expenses and framing and keep going for another year or so. I had another exhibition, another gallery the year after. Again, it sold okay, but, you know, really, I discovered very, I realized very quickly that it was going to be almost impossible to make a living as an artist. I was working like most artists do. different jobs. I was running a small arts charity full-time. I was teaching part-time art. I was running, you know, Airbnb out of a spare room. So I figured out that I needed to differentiate myself in some way. There's just so many great artists in Scotland and Edinburgh. So I didn't know how I was going to do that, but at one point, I think it was about 2011, I started to see these little codes on packaging and that kind of thing, and discovered QR codes. and thought initially these were quite cool things. Everybody's coming, you know, phones were, you know, smartphones were more ubiquitous at that time coming out. And I started to kind of think, well, maybe I can use this to help promote my upcoming exhibition. And before that even happened, actually the exhibition opened, I was already thinking like, what if I can paint these QR codes, but like big QR codes with oil paint on canvas, it could actually be scannable and be able to engage people with in a new way, like an artist had never done before. And so that was the beginning of it. I also realized that it was important that it wasn't just a gimmick, that the tech incorporation actually offered something of value, something of meaning and significance to the message of the work. With those QR codes, I built a website with a friend of mine who's my tech guru, and me being just the artist. But we built a website where people from around the world, artists could upload their own art to it. It became like an online gallery.
Josh Kriger: What was the timing there?
Trevor Jones: That was 2012. OK. So yeah, 12 years ago. You know, at the time, nobody was doing anything like this. I was seeing online some people were experimenting with QR codes with their art, but it was something more immediate, like a link to a piece of poetry or maybe just directly to their website or something like that. But I thought, like, what we have here is an opportunity to expand into this global digital world with other people involved. So, yeah, people around the world could upload their own artwork to this online gallery. They could upload their details, their contact details. They could share things through social media. And before I even realized what community was, I was building a community online around my paintings because people could scan my QR codes and then be accessed this whole world of art and innovation and new artists.
Josh Kriger: That's pretty amazing. You know, in my former life, I experimented with QR codes. I had a sustainable hat company, and we told the story of the collaboration with the artists using QR codes on the back of the packaging. This was 2020, so you were ahead of me. you're ahead of most people in space. And nowadays QR codes are sort of ubiquitous with sort of museums and storytelling and sort of enhancing the experience of the process of learning about art in the creation process, right? So it's come a long way to sort of mainstream adoption from those early days.
Trevor Jones: It has, yeah. There was definitely a lot of pushback and struggle that I experienced back then.
Josh Kriger: I feel like I feel like COVID helped, right? I mean, during COVID, people didn't want to touch menus at restaurants. And so all of a sudden QR codes were part of the restaurant menu experience. And I feel like that was a meaningful moment for people to get comfortable with using QR codes in all facets of life. Maybe just just my theory, but it certainly seems like it had an influence.
Trevor Jones: Yeah, that could be it. I think, I mean, I, yeah, I was exploring QR codes in 2012, 2013, I moved to augmented reality, but, you know, I was always interested in how QR codes could be incorporated with art. But it seemed that QR codes were on the way out, you know, shortly after I was using them. And yet there was, yeah, 100% there's been this resurgence and now they're used in all different ways and formats and for different things. So it's nice to see that the QR codes are thriving again.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, it sort of leads me to a broader conversation I wanted to have with you about sort of the
challenges and opportunities of blending traditional art with digital mediums and, you know, how you've sort of encountered, what sort of challenges you've encountered over the years and how you've tried to overcome them.
Trevor Jones: Yeah, it's been quite the journey. So when I first created this QR code paintings and a website, and I thought like, holy smokes, this is amazing, this is incredible, like artwork that hasn't been done before in such a way that, like I said, it really expands and opens up the digital world and accessing other people all around the world, this communication taking place through these paintings essentially, like a digital windows to another universe. And I thought, OK, this is my ticket. I'll have art galleries all over the world knocking on my door, trying to ask me to show my work. And yet, it was pretty much the opposite. There was nothing but tumbleweeds and crickets. Nobody was interested in the work. submitting them to different open exhibitions, the Royal Scottish Academy, Visual Arts Scotland, online events, things like that, and it was just constant rejection. Nobody understood what they were, or at that point, I mean the traditional art world is, you know, for the most part, quite conservative in general, especially in Scotland. You know, the galleries want to show artwork that is recognizable and popular. Landscapes, seascapes, you know, cityscapes, portraits, you know, that kind of thing, and abstracts. And so when I was trying to sell galleries on QR codes and innovation, it was nothing but pushback. So that led me to the next year to augmented reality. And at that point, I'm thinking, OK, now I don't have to, I'm not restricted to painting these square codes like things. I can paint anything I want. Again, now that becomes the target image recognized by an app, an AR app. And so now I could, and then I could actually create animations or videos and overlay this digital content with music and tags to like, to click on to, you know, social media elements, whatever I wanted to do. And through a series of paintings, I created, I think it was like 2013 was my first AR painting. It was about storytelling and Again, I was working towards these projects and I was putting the work out there and there were literally no galleries interested in what I was doing. And I'm thinking like, holy smokes, I must be crazy, because in my head, this makes complete sense. This is something brand new. This is transforming a painting into a story, almost like a movie, something like out of a Harry Potter book. And it just didn't make any sense to me that there was literally zero interest from the traditional art world I was even hiring spaces at art events like the Edinburgh Art Fair and putting my work up and along with hundreds of other artists and galleries and thousands of people come through over the next few days and the only people who were interested in my art were children kind of between the ages of like 5 and 15, 16 years old. So young collectors. Yeah, exactly. They were just so fascinated. They were like, holy smokes, this is a magic painting.
Josh Kriger: It makes you feel like the adults have to become a little bit more childlike in their sense of imagination again. Yeah.
Trevor Jones: Absolutely, absolutely. The kids just got it immediately. And me being me, I was like, I'm thinking, OK, you know, this is my job now. I'm an artist. I will persist. I will persevere. And all I have to do is wait another 15 to 20 years for these kids to grow up and become doctors and lawyers and art buyers. And then I will have my market, but I just have to keep on going. So even though there were many times that I thought, you know, I need to just get back to basics, just paint paintings that people are going to like. I went back to commercial galleries, stopped hiring my own spaces, put on my own exhibitions because nobody wanted to show my work. I would think like that for a few days after each rejection, but then I'd get right back at her and start like, you know, I'm going to follow this through. I do feel that there's something important here that I need to experience and explore.
Josh Kriger: So what was, did that turn out to be the case where it was just a matter of time and sort of the younger generation stepping up to the plate and becoming, you know, the consumers of art and the buyers or Did something shift in society or did you sort of shift your approach in some way? When did things start to really take off and what triggered that?
Trevor Jones: It really was just the alignment of the stars. All these things came together at the right time. So it was about 2016, I had another exhibition called, Would I Lie to You? The Art of Politics and Propaganda, and it was made up of 12 world leaders, painted with rubbish, garbage, and oil paints, portraits, Putin and Trump and Hillary and David Cameron I ended up selling all of those works to one collector here in Scotland. And what that did, for the first time as an artist, gave me some ability to have a bit of financial stability. And that led me on to start looking at different investment opportunities. I ended up investing in Bitcoin in 2017. What happened was I just became consumed by this space and I decided that this was something that I wanted to explore with my art. So also what was happening was I was investing at the perfect time, this is the bull run of mid-2017 and I was a noob investor, but it's very easy to make money when it's a bull run. So I'm thinking like, I'm a genius.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, we all thought we were in 2017. Then we learned reality in 2018.
Trevor Jones: Exactly. That's exactly what happened. I was making money hand over fist. I mean, not huge, but more than I ever made as an artist. And I'm thinking like, I can just make money trading shit coins and then paint whatever I want. So I ended up deciding I'm going to commit all of 2018 towards a crypto-themed exhibition, and I call it Crypto Disruption. But yes, as you said, 2018 hit, and the bear came and destroyed everything, and I lost all the money I'd made, or all the crypto I'd made. I was broke again. But I was already fully invested in the space and the concept behind the exhibition. So I was back to working odd jobs just to get enough money together to pay the bills.
Josh Kriger: I want to pause there for a moment and just reflect on sort of the early observation that you had again around the intersection of art and technology because I don't think there were too many artists at that moment that were diving deep into the Bitcoin ecosystem. And, you know, we talked about Vesa back in episode six. I think it was about how the genesis of computer art was sort of programming code into art in the 1950s. But at that moment, Bitcoin was very much a speculative asset class, and had a sort of mixed reputation in the mainstream. It was the moment where I didn't have my blockchain sort of interest on my LinkedIn profile, right? It was all sort of the secret of other stuff that we did. We were in the closet, so to speak. So when you're doing that, Did you think that there would be an opportunity that sort of has now manifested around this intersection of art and technology and NFTs and Web3? And, you know, it's been a roller coaster. We'll get into that. But at that moment, did you have that vision in your head or is it just pure, like, experimentation?
Trevor Jones: It was pure experimentation, pure risk-taking, pure creativity driven entirely by something that I was fascinated by. And like you said, like Vesta said, back then in 2017, there weren't really any, I didn't know of any artists. I was looking online for art galleries that were selling crypto-themed artwork. By that time, there were some artists using augmented reality, but no artists that I saw, painters, traditional painters, using augmented reality with crypto-themed art. So for me to invest a year's worth of time and money, very little money that I had, into an exhibition, and again, higher than my own gallery space, because galleries weren't interested in showing my work, putting on the opening night, inviting people I knew, and also knowing that there would probably be no buyers in Scotland. It was just... Looking back now, it was... a ridiculously stupid thing to do. But I just followed my vision and my, I guess, my drive to try something new that nobody else, or that I knew of, was actually doing. And that's where it all turned around, because the exhibition opened in October, at the end of October, and by August, I was posting things online, on Twitter, works in progress, talking about this exhibition I'm working towards. And I started to find people within the ecosystem, some other artists, mostly digital artists, and VESA and a lot of money, some other people, Koldi, that began to to talk with but also I had two buyers of the paintings before the exhibition even opened and that just blew my mind that that there would be people out there in the world who would see my work online and I think you know the the painting that sold were five thousand pounds and I think eight and a half thousand pounds. It was like about $8,000 to $14,000, which was the most I'd ever sold an artwork for. And for somebody just to, out of the blue, to reach out to me and say, how much? And I say, here's a number. They say, give me your Bitcoin wallet address and I'll transfer the money. And I said, okay, and I'll have to send you the painting in November after the exhibition finishes. And for them to do it, it was this really mind-blowing experience that, I mean, I couldn't get my head around. It made no sense, coming from the traditional art world, where you go through a gallery, the gallery owner sells the work, you hope to get the money a month or two down the line after everything's, you know, been sold up. For me to get money, Bitcoin was sent to me immediately, and for the sale of an artwork that somebody had just seen on Twitter, I couldn't get my head around it.
Josh Kriger: Very cool. Yeah. And thus, thus the beginning. And at that point, sort of, we get, you know, into 2021. We started the show in March, which was when Bored Yacht Club also came out. And I assume, you know, around that time, you're not only doing your own pieces, but you're starting to do some interesting collaborations, because co-creation is sort of in the DNA of this space. What have been some of the collaborations that sort of came about after, you know, those early days? And how do you choose collaborators?
Trevor Jones: Yeah, some of my biggest collabs were at the end of 2020. So there was Jose Delbo. I did another A Lot of Money piece, ETH Boy, the sister piece to ETH Girl. And then PAC, I did a PAC collab, which was December 2020. And that was a huge, huge success. For choosing the artist that I would like to collaborate with, Each one is different. You know, I think finding somebody that I respect and that I admire, but also somebody who is very, very different to me and to my work. So somebody who is going to push me and to challenge me. And each collaborator is different, too. Every relationship is different. So some, like with a lot of money, were just super easygoing and a lot of fun. With PAC, it was much more kind of high stress, high expectations, high demand. And, you know, I love them all for different reasons. You know, with the Jose Dalbo collab, it was something, you know, that I was kind of more leading. He was about the only guy in the space who was older than me. I think he was, at the time, he just passed away last year, unfortunately. But he was, I think, 85, 86 years old. And I was about 50, early 50s at the time. And we laughed because it was like a record-breaking drop. We did something like 540 ETH on that drop. And I mean, there's a huge, huge thing. There's a giant auction. And both of us had fallen asleep before it even ended. That's how old we were.
Josh Kriger: I used to be a night owl, but I'm an early bird as well. So that's something interesting to wake up in the morning to. How early in the morning did you get up and look at your computer or your phone?
Trevor Jones: I think I probably got up at, what, 7, 730. OK.
Josh Kriger: I would have got up earlier. I would have been like, my body would have, prompted me to get up at like 5am just because of the anticipation.
Trevor Jones: Yeah, that did happen with my first drop at the end of 2019 with A Lot of Money, my Genesis piece, and that was like a massive, massive success at the time. It was 70 ETH And yeah, I mean, I fell asleep at about 2 o'clock in the morning. I just couldn't stay up. It was just this auction that was going on and on and on. And I ended up waking up probably about 5, 6. But I would wake up occasionally throughout the night and look. It was like, holy smokes. It was just 30th, 40th, 50th. So I think a couple more years later, I just, OK, I just can't handle these late nights anymore. And I managed to sleep until about 7, 7 30.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, good for you to, you know, figure out that balance. I have not figured out the balance of this world of web three and media and events and trading and you know, all of it. You know, if you know something, I don't know. We'll talk about that more offline. But let's talk about the Bitcoin Angel, which was one of your massive successes as well. And I'm curious here, how did this project shape your career and influence future endeavors?
Trevor Jones: It literally transformed everything. I think you mentioned at the beginning, it was like February 2021, a big drop on Nifty Gateway. It was a one-day event, actually, so from palette to canvas, I had 14 artworks, paintings that were kind of retrospective from the previous 10 years. And I minted each one of them over the course of the 10 years. So those were one-on-ones and linked to a one-on-one NFT. And the winners of the auction would be sent these physical paintings. But then there was the open edition of the Bitcoin Angel, the painting from 2018, and that sold 4,158 editions in seven minutes, which was, I think, $3.2 million. And again, it was... I can't even explain how it made me feel. There was ecstatic and dread at the same time. Part of me thought I'd destroyed my career and saturated the market. There was pushback from some collectors saying that, you know, I've ruined my market now because there's too many Bitcoin angels out there. I've got too much artwork on the market. And so I was in this weird space emotionally and psychologically. I've finally made it and I've also ruined my career in one moment. But then the Board 8 Yacht Club came in, you know, all these different PFP projects, literally a month or two later, and there's 10,000 projects happening. It's like, okay, I'll be okay. That's one thing I learned about that. And actually, a lot of different things over the, from kind of 2019 to 2021 is that every time something happened, there would be some kind of pushback from somebody or some collectors, some people, some artists, and there'd be negativity. And then two months later, three months later, it would be gone. There would be something different. And so I had to learn throughout that process that, you know, focus on the art, focus on what's important to me, focus on what I'm excited about. If I make a mistake, you know, I do something, you know, put my hand up and accept responsibility. But for the most part, as long as you stay true to yourself and authentic and do, create work for the right reasons. You know, you can only stand with your head high and what other people say, it's not on your shoulders. But yeah, I learned a lot from that. The Bitcoin Angel definitely did, also what it did was give me the financial stability to really explore things, everything that I wanted to do creatively. I didn't have the financial restrictions that I had for my entire art career before that. So I could try new things and experiment and hire people to help me, other creatives and tech gurus.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. And a lot of people ask me for advice as artists on sort of Bridging into web three and entities and I don't always feel very equipped to answer those questions and I encourage them to find an artist as a mentor that's actually in the space that has been into the trenches. One question that they asked me that I want to turn to you so I can share this moment with them in the future is around sort of that first collection and overall strategy for releasing art as NFTs. You know, there's an artist I recently spoke with that has this incredible collection of photographs that they've done over a course of time, and there's a lot of uniqueness to this collection. And we're talking about, do you release that as one-on-ones in small amounts, as a larger sort of collection? What's the utility? I know there's not one-size-fits-all answers here, and I know it's all an experiment. Eric Calderon shared that with us in a very sort of honest and authentic way on the show. But what are your reflections at this moment in time in terms of how artists break into this space and how they can sort of, you know, elevate themselves given where we're at now? I mean, it would seem to some like there's a glass ceiling where there's a set of artists like yourself that folks sort of collect and value in spite of the depreciation of a lot of NFTs. And then there's a lot of folks that are having trouble selling their art even for, you know, as a collectible, as a mintable collectible, even if it's an open edition. So I'm sure it's quite a dichotomy, even for you to process, but what are your reflections on that dichotomy and how new artists sort of enter the space now, given where we're at?
Trevor Jones: Yeah, that's the million dollar question for sure. Gosh, where do I start? This market moves quickly, which is good and bad. I think if you're an artist coming into the space, or even if you've been in the space for a while and you're trying to chase the next trend, you will inevitably fail. And also I think you'll, on a creative level, you'll just die a little bit inside because you're not creating what you want to do. So I think first and foremost, artists need to be authentic and really develop their own uniqueness. So innovation and uniqueness is absolutely, and the only way you can do that is by surveying the landscape of artists, seeing what your skills are, who you are as an artist, understanding that, recognizing that, and seeing what other people are doing. You know, like I said, this space moves so fast. I'm not a digital artist in the sense that I'm not a coder. I can't do general art, I'm not into that. I only know what my USP is as a traditional artist who embraces new technology. So you have to... understand, really understand the landscape, understand where you fit within this growing space, and try to find ways to make yourself stand out with regards to whether it's a one-on-one drop, or it's a series, or it's an open edition, or it's this or that. Again, the space moves so quickly, you just kind of have to read it for it is at that time and decide and try to, and I think also it has to make sense. Man, this space is so crazy. You see artists who do absolute money grabs when the market is hot. And I don't think that's a good way to go about things. But at the same time, we're artists. We have to make money. And if you can make some money, then that's great. But I think for longevity, if you're an artist and you want to stay in the space for for you as a career, be it an artist who is recognized and respected, you have to make smart decisions and responsible decisions and think about what you're doing and why and how you're dropping and how that's going to potentially affect the market, even though you don't really have control over it, but at least if you think about it, that if somebody asks you why, that you're able to answer questions.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for all that. Obviously, you know, there's probably a whole course, a set of seminars, you could give on that topic, but definitely some nuggets in there that, you know, folks listening that are inspired by giving this space can sort of take to heart. And, you know, I think part of this world of web three and digital art and, and overall creativity is having fun on the journey. And part of that for you is these castle parties that you do, which have been quite legendary in, in the, in the crypto art scene. Tell us a little bit more about what inspired these events and what sort of evolved in that, in that area.
Trevor Jones: It started, the idea came out literally a couple days after the Bitcoin Angel Open Edition sale. And one of the big collectors messaged me, we were DMing and he said, well, you know, now that, you know, this has happened, you need to have a castle party in Scotland to celebrate and to, you know, as a kind of thank you to all the collectors. And I just laughed it off, I thought that's ridiculous. But then, you know, the creative mind starts going and it's like, wait a second. Within a week, I was like, I'm going to have a castle party. That's a great idea. And it just kind of went from there. I have a very small team of two people, David and Martin. And Martin kind of is my project manager and just helps me with whatever needs to be helped with. And David is more office and admin and emails. He's also very creative, so he helps with writing and different things. So a very, very small team. We can do some amazing things. And we started working on a castle party in Scotland. And it just grew into this event that was going to be an annual event. I had another one last year. But the problem is that it's a great idea. And I love the concept and everything it's grown into, which we can talk about in a bit. But at the end of the day, I'm an artist and not a council party planner. So it was really taking up most of my year organizing these parties, which was a lot of fun.
Josh Kriger: You're speaking to a guy that has organized some very large events over the last few years, and they always expand to fill every second of the day of your bandwidth, no matter what. It's like, planning an event, you may as well be planning an Indian wedding, right? Like, once you start mixing, you know, people, logistics, and sort of castles and art and technology together, there's a lot to it.
Trevor Jones: Yeah, it becomes all-consuming. Like I said, as you know, it's a lot of fun and very rewarding, but at the end of the day, I'm an artist and not a castle party planner. So it's going to be every two years now rather than every one year. But I think, as you know, the ideas that they developed, the first year was a one-day event. And we tried to put so much into it. It was amazing. And the great castle, Stirling Castle. If you ever get to Scotland, go to Stirling Castle. It's beautiful. But it was just not enough time. And so you have 300 people. And you don't really get the time to meet everybody and to talk. And there's just so much happening and so many different events and entertainment. So last year we had in France, just an hour south of Paris, Chateau de Valery and it was three days and two nights and that was much better because then people, what I've just discovered now that it's grown into is more about relationships. It's putting on this great event, it's in a historical castle with culture and history and art and the fundraiser, the philanthropy part of it, the food, the drink, the entertainment, but bringing together a small group of people that's very different than, say, Consensus or, you know, NFT New York City or something like that, and you really build lifelong friends through these types of smaller events when you spend time, you know, just building relationships. And so that's, you know, that's the whole kind of fundamentals of these castle parties now is to put on something that's over the top crazy with amazing entertainment and history and culture, but also raising as much money as possible for a charity, a local charity called Maggie's. They're a cancer support charity and that's in the name of a lot of money who was my first genesis collaborator who died of cancer unfortunately and so able to give back to the IRL world to take everything that is good in this space, in the Web3 space, and to kind of build something beautiful around friendships and relationships and entertainment and art and innovation, and then be able to give back to the real world as well and have people who look in on this Web3 space from the outside and think, you know, what are all those crazy DGens doing with their, you know, board apes, you know, PFPs, but then you can do something that is really, really important and valuable and life-changing for other people who know nothing about the space.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, that's beautiful. And I'd love for you to come to the next edition of Outer Edge Riyadh, which we planned with the same sort of goal of being more intimate and experiential. You know, our events in LA, I've had as many as three or 4,000 attendees and in Riyadh, it was 750 approximately. And a lot of founders, you know, we even mixed in government officials and artists together. We had a bunch of local Saudi artists that came and performers. There was a level of intimacy to it, you know, that was quite special. Traffic in Riyadh is really, really bad. So the idea was to keep everyone together for the day and evening, you know, in one place and see what happens. No one wanted to leave, whereas in a city like New York, there's 500 different options, right? So I think I can relate a lot to what you've done. I'm going to have to go to one of these castle parties one of these days. I'm inviting myself. I want to get over to Scotland anyways, and I'm a little bit jealous of my girlfriend's going. I'm going to be in Bitcoin Nashville, which I think you'll be at two. What's going on for you in Nashville?
Trevor Jones: Well, first off, we fly to New York on Saturday. So I'll be there for a few days. Tribal Auction House, where I sold the Archangel just last month, the 21 Archangel collection series. We've sent them the 21 bronze cast sculptures. Actually, 20. I've got one here because I'm one of the Archangels, too. And so I'm going to be there just to oversee the packaging and shipping out the Archangel bronze cast sculptures. And then on the 23rd, we'll fly to Nashville. We're there for probably about six, seven days, I think. And I've got some artwork up at the gallery there. So I'm just communicating with the Bitcoin Conference guys and getting that all sorted out. I'll have one painting, one original frame painting and eight limited edition prints. And yeah, looking forward to... I'll have a... some of my team there as well, so we'll be able to hopefully get out and see some of the conference events and presentations as well.
Josh Kriger: Cool, yeah, I know there's going to be a lot going on during that time. I'll share some cool things we're doing and maybe we can connect IRL before the week is over. So with regard to, you know, this world of technology and art and where things are going. We talked a little bit about your thoughts on the present moment. I wanted to sort of push the boundaries to what are the new things that you're experimenting with, the new technology? Have you dabbled with AI? Where do you think the space is going next? Obviously, no one has that crystal ball, but maybe the question should be like, where are you going next or where do you want the space to go next?
Trevor Jones: Oh, a lot of questions there. I don't know where I want the space to go. I think it goes where it goes. And as an artist, we find our path along that way as well. Again, I think it's important for artists who are listening to not try to just jump on the bandwagon. So for me, I've got this big painting behind me I've been working on for ages, Steampunk. series, I've got a couple other paintings. So that'll be dropping December, January, February, something like that. I don't know exactly when yet, but I already have plans for my next project for... I'll start next year. And yeah, I will incorporate paintings, CCTV cameras, worldwide domination, AI, AR, you know, maybe EEG, headsets. There's going to be some, a lot of really cool things. I'm not sure where the physical event will take place yet. I'm just going to start working on it. I've got some ideas, but yeah, I'm already excited. That's the thing with being an artist. I'm very good at starting things and terrible at finishing them because I already have ideas for the next project.
Josh Kriger: And then you have this two-person team. I can just imagine, you know, what it's like for them. They just have to buckle up their seatbelts and see where things go and, you know, kind of like bowling with bumpers, you know? It's just like, we'll see what happens, right?
Trevor Jones: Yeah, they're amazing. I mean, sometimes I'm thinking like, they're going to quit. They're going to quit. It's like, please don't quit. Please don't quit. It's like, wait, guys, I've got another idea. It's like, no, not another idea. One more castle party. It's like, no, okay, all right.
Josh Kriger: Cool. And before we sort of move on to the next segment, just wanted to sort of ask you what's next for you in terms of upcoming projects or collaborations that maybe we haven't covered yet?
Trevor Jones: Well, like I said, this one here, the Steampunk series, I'm working with Apollo Entertainment. I've done quite a lot of work with them. They're a digital production company. A friend of mine, again, the space is great because you meet amazing people and the more IRL events you go to, the more time you get to spend with these people and you find out who you really connect with and resonate with and who you trust. And Nick and Danny from Apollo Entertainment are brilliant. So I've worked with them on a lot of different things. They're brilliant and their team is brilliant. So that's this project here, which, again, I started about two years ago. I'm like the exact opposite of what an artist should be in this space. Artists in this space should be like, you know, boom, boom, boom. creating and working on the next thing. I literally work on two-year projects. A one-year project is a short-term project for me. So, yeah, and then the CCTV camera, I've got some big ideas for that. So watch this space, but I move at a snail's pace compared to a lot of other people. And I think maybe that's one of my, that's my USP. You know, I think it's important. and that's what even like with the castle party and these different projects with the crypto angels project it gives me when you take the time not just even weeks or months but years to work on something to develop an idea a creative vision when you have the time to really kind of explore it and to to build out on it, it will inevitably be something special. And what I've learned the last four or five years in this space is that the times that I've rushed something and I've put something out too quick, I didn't take the time to really think about it. The why, the message, the mechanics, why did I do this? I just dropped something. Inevitably, I'm disappointed. It's better to take time, even in a fast-paced, crazy Web3 space like this.
Josh Kriger: Cool. Your Steam project reminded me of some of the steampunk masquerade balls I went to in San Francisco over the years. I don't know if you've ever been to any of those. It travels now, I believe. You know, there was one in LA I went to as well with my girlfriend one of those years, where everyone's dressed up in steampunk gear. It's pretty fun. So something to look into that might draw you to the West Coast.
Trevor Jones: Very cool. Yeah. Actually, the last castle party just outside of Paris had a steampunk theme. And it was just amazing to see so many people come to the event with all their gear on. It was very, very special. It's a very cool genre.
Josh Kriger: Absolutely. Yeah, very special indeed. So we want to get to know you better. So this is a great segue to our next segment, which is edge quick hitters. So just when you're warmed up and overtired because it's so late, edge quick hitters are fun and a quick way to get to know you a little bit better. There are 10 questions. We're looking for just a short single or a few word response, but feel free to expand if you get the urge. And you already said you're ready, so I won't ask you again. What is the first thing you remember ever purchasing in your life?
Trevor Jones: I think it was a Judas Priest record. I think I was about 12 or 13 years old. And for some reason, I wanted to. I must have liked a song I heard or something. And I ended up saving my allowance and saving, saving, saving for months. And I finally managed to buy the album. And I remember playing it and I really didn't like the album at all. I thought that's the biggest disappointment ever. So I learned some valuable lessons.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I have plenty of those types of early purchases. I'm like, what was I thinking? What is the first thing you remember ever selling in your life? Maybe it was that Judas Priest album. You're like, I want to get rid of it.
Trevor Jones: I couldn't return it, unfortunately. But I was still in high school. I think it was like grade 11 or 12. And my older brother convinced me that I needed to join him in Amway. And I started selling Amway. And that was another devastating experience. I lasted a few months and was just embarrassed completely trying to knock on neighbors' doors and teachers and sell them soap and shampoo. So yeah, that was my experience.
Josh Kriger: They say it's good practice for life, but yeah, I think I was selling AT&T services through some sort of Ponzi scheme that I didn't realize what I signed up for. It's like, yeah, four hours of work turned into 14 per day. I was like, this is crazy. What, what is the most recent thing you purchased?
Trevor Jones: I, I can't remember. I don't, funnily enough, I don't really buy much food, you know, I got some clothes, like, uh, what are we talking about?
Josh Kriger: Some pizza, like, What was the last restaurant you went to?
Trevor Jones: That's one thing that we spend money on is that we go to nice restaurants. So what did we do? We went to a seafood restaurant and had some beautiful seafood, a nice bottle of wine. We do get some nice seafood here on the shore in Edinburgh. But also my wife, funnily enough, actually, my wife was a vegetarian for 25 years. And just in the last year she started eating meat and she's like that's amazing for you, right? It was like the one thing, like we've been together for almost 10 years, I think now. And I was never allowed or was seldom allowed to have a steak at home because she hated it. She's like, I can't, I can't, I just can't have that smell. And the meat's getting everywhere. And now she is insatiable. Like she will eat meat every day. And I'm like, hon, I would like to have a salad tonight. Please can we have a salad tonight?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I'm only allowed to make burgers at home when my girlfriend's not here. So. All right. So what was the most recent thing you sold?
Trevor Jones: Probably my Bitcoin Angels. Actually, I've got one here. Give me two seconds. I'll get it. This is one of the 21 Bitcoin angel bronze cast sculptures and they are super heavy it weighs about 15 pounds and 20 of them are on their way to to New York City right now and hopefully we'll be there by the time we arrive but yeah sold 21 of them for 87 ETH last month through tribal auctions and
Josh Kriger: Wow, with 87 each or total?
Trevor Jones: No, total, yeah. I wish that it would have been 20, 21 prices.
Josh Kriger: It's a little bit different now. They're beautiful, though, and congrats on that and hopefully get some muscles lifting them and moving them around to New York. What is your most prized possession?
Trevor Jones: My imagination. Hmm.
Josh Kriger: That's great. If you could buy anything in the world, digital physical service experience is currently for sale. What would it be?
Trevor Jones: I really want to, I love living in Scotland. We live in a nice little flat, but I would like to talk about moving. I would like to buy a huge, beautiful house on the beach, overlooking the beach, modern house, giant windows, and an amazing view. That would be my dream purchase. Fortunately, my wife wants to live somewhere in the mountains, so we're at a bit of a conflict.
Josh Kriger: There's got to be somewhere that combines those two. I'm going to ask Perplexity AI for a solution to that, and I'll share the answer. I have the premium subscription, so we'll see what it offers up. If you could pass on one of your personality traits to the next generation, besides your imagination, what would it be?
Trevor Jones: I think accountability. I think it's important, it's something that I learned, really learned probably in my 30s, is how to be able to take responsibility for my actions. To put my hand up when I screw up and say I made a mistake and now I'm going to fix it. I think that's probably one of the best things somebody can learn and the younger they learn that the better.
Josh Kriger: And I think more of that is needed in the Web3 space for sure. So please do pass that on to this generation while you're at it. If you could eliminate one of your personality traits from the next generation, what would it be?
Trevor Jones: Probably jealousy. It's a killer. Yeah, it's not a good one. And we all suffer from it. I try to get better. I mean, I think a little bit of jealousy, a little bit of competition, things that are important to drive you as a creative, as a person, as an entrepreneur. But when it starts to consume you, it's destructive.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, totally agree. That's another good one there. And what did you do just before joining us on the podcast?
Trevor Jones: I was working on a presentation that I'll be giving in Glasgow. So when we get back from Nashville, literally the very next day, there's a conference, a Block Start conference in Glasgow, and I'll be doing a presentation there. And I absolutely hate public speaking. I mean, I'm getting better at it now, even like talking to you, you know, these, I've never, I've never embraced these kinds of things. And then actually speaking in front of people, it just kills me. So that's what I've been working on.
Josh Kriger: Well, I'd like to take some credit for the style of the interview, but I feel like you're a natural, so what it's worth.
Trevor Jones: It's been really good talking to you, and it's very comfortable. So thank you for that, definitely.
Josh Kriger: And what are you going to do next after the podcast? I think I know the answer to this one.
Trevor Jones: Yeah, I'm going to go home. What time is it? 10, I'll get home at 10: 30 or 10: 45. I my wife and I have just started she's a she loves it she's a binge watcher tv binge watcher series so I've got her into Seinfeld and she's watching Seinfeld now and so every night we'll watch like a couple Seinfeld episodes so I'll probably go home watch some Seinfeld and then go to bed.
Josh Kriger: There you go. we're binge watching and all the, uh, shows on Netflix that have gotten Emmy awards. And by the way, let me just give a shout out to my dear friend, David Bianchi, who's a razor web three film, our miniseries production just got Emmy nominated. So let's go film three.
Trevor Jones: Amazing. Fantastic. Well done.
Josh Kriger: So we usually have a bonus question, and I'm inspired to ask you if there's a particular film or series where you can just watch over and over again because you enjoy it so much and it brings you sort of, you know, lightness and enjoyment.
Trevor Jones: Probably friends. Again, I think it's my wife's favorite. She can actually literally recite word for word. I mean, she's fanatical. She's Polish. I think she learned how to speak English partly from Her dad would bring back, this is early communist Poland in the 80s, and he would bring back VHS tapes. He brought back stand-up comedy with Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor. So my wife swears like a sailor, but also she learned a lot of her English from friends. So she even has like a little bit of a friend's accent to her. So yeah, I tend to watch Friends when I just want to chill out and have a laugh and wind down from the Web3 space.
Josh Kriger: Nice. It's a classic and one of the best done series, I would say, in space. So that's a good one. So before we wrap, we love to give our guests a chance to shout out. And this is sort of to someone in your world that maybe doesn't get as much spotlight attention, but is very important to who you are and what you do. Who comes to mind?
Trevor Jones: I've actually mentioned them both already. Well, my team, David and Martin, are amazing, and they just always I'm very supportive of all my crazy ideas and work exceptionally hard to help me see these creative visions come true. And of course, my wife, Violet, who always keeps me laughing and always keeps me entertained and puts up with me and always working. So yeah, shout out to those guys.
Josh Kriger: All right, indeed. Well, it's not hard to find Trevor on the World Wide Web. Just go to trevorjonesart.com and you can kind of go down the rabbit hole from there, find Trevor on X and IG and everywhere else. I assume, Trevor, folks can get to you by going to your website?
Trevor Jones: Yeah, Best Things is my website and you can just find me at Trevor Jones Art everywhere. When I first decided to become an artist there was, I wanted trevorjones.com but there was a famous composer, Hollywood composer and South African I think. And his name is Trevor Jones, my arts nemesis. So now, even now, sometimes I'll be Googling, you know, Google Trevor Jones art, and you'll see this picture of this 75-year-old South African guy that says Trevor Jones, NFT artist. So yeah, I'm Trevor Jones art everywhere.
Josh Kriger: All right. Well, we have reached the outer limit at the edge of NFT for today. Thanks for exploring with us. We've got space for more adventures on the Starships. Invite your friends or recruit some cool strangers. They'll make this journey much better. How? If you're listening right now, go to Spotify or iTunes or YouTube. or Mico, and rate us and say something awesome. Join over 150,000 other followers by hitting the subscribe or follow button and passing this episode on to a friend or two. And remember, if you check us out on Mico.io, that's M-Y-C-O.io, you can not only watch but earn your time and attention. Lastly, be sure to tune in next time for more great Web3 content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us today, audience, and thank you, Trevor.
Outro: The views and opinions expressed on Edge of NFT reflect solely those views and opinions of the show hosts and its guests. Please make sure to do your own research. Our show is not financial advice. You understand that you are using any and all information available on or through this podcast at your own risk. Whenever making financial decisions, we recommend doing your own research and talking to your accountant for financial advice. From time to time we may feature sponsored content on the show for which we receive value and we may share links for which we receive a commission if you make a purchase through one of those links. Refer to our website www.edgeofnft.com for our full disclaimer, terms and conditions, and privacy policy.
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