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In this episode, Austin Lee from ApeBond discusses how decentralized bonds are revolutionizing fundraising in the Web3 space, highlighting key innovations like min-max discounts and cross-chain interoperability. He also shares insights on the future of bonds, security strategies, and his personal journey into the world of blockchain technology.
This episode is brought to you by ApeBond, a multi-chain bonding protocol focused on creating a sustainable DeFi future for projects and communities.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Decentralized Bonds and Fundraising: The episode explores how decentralized bonds are revolutionizing fundraising in the Web3 space by allowing projects to raise capital through crowdsourced investments at discounted rates.
- Cross-Chain Interoperability: Austin discusses the importance of cross-chain technology in expanding the reach of their bonding protocol, enabling projects to tap into liquidity across multiple blockchain networks.
- Security and Risk Management: The conversation highlights the significance of security in DeFi, emphasizing the need for robust strategies, such as working with security partners and implementing bug bounties, to mitigate risks associated with novel financial products.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- Austin Lee (00:06:02-00:06:13): "DeFi has been a relatively consistent, important part of the blockchain industry and sort of the future of sort of a more egalitarian world of equal opportunity using, you know, the financial system to one's own personal benefit more creatively without sort of the same sort of hindrances that have been there before."
- Austin Lee (00:09:54-00:10:05): "I mean, really, we can work with anybody. I think for us, like we want to see a certain amount of liquidity that they have on, let's say, another decentralized exchange. So that way there is like, we can't be a secondary market if there's no primary market, right."
- Austin Lee (00:24:02-00:24:13): "I think we can start playing into the Web2 space for pre-IPO companies and essentially trading those employee stock options on an open and transparent market with bonds.
For the full transcript, see further below.
People and Resources Mentioned:
- Austin Lee LinkedIn
- Ape Bond Website
- CryptoKitties Website
- Graphlinq Website
- IOTA Website
- Base Website
- BitLayer Website
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About Our Guest:
- Bio: Austin Lee is a pioneering figure in the decentralized finance (DeFi) space, currently serving as a key player at ApeBond, a leading bonding protocol that facilitates secure and transparent fundraising across multiple blockchain networks.
- Website: Ape Bond
- Twitter: @ApeBond
- LinkedIn: Austin Lee
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Full Episode Transcript:
Austin Lee: Hi, this is Austin Lee from ApeBond. We're pioneering new approaches to fundraising through decentralized bonds, providing seamless cross-chain solutions for projects worldwide. You're tuned in to the Edge of NFT, the show that bonds Web3 curiosity and innovation by sharing the exciting potential of decentralized finance every week. Stay tuned in for more.
Josh Kriger: Hey, Web3 curious listeners, stay tuned for today's episode to learn how decentralized bonds are transforming fundraising in Web3, as well as the key innovations behind setting min-max and target discounts, and what opportunities these and other innovations can open up for the next generation of Web2 and Web3 companies. Lastly, find out what plunge our guest Austin takes every day to get into a flow state. All this and more at the Edge of ApeBond. It's recognized as the leading bonding protocol in decentralized finance, facilitating secure and transparent fundraising across multiple blockchain networks. APON offers various financial products, including tiered staking, launchpad opportunities, aimed at fostering a sustainable DeFi economy for projects and communities. It's great to have you on the show, Austin.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, thanks for having me, Josh. Happy to be here.
Austin Lee: Yeah, we were just kind of talking in the green room about sort of how we're probably in like five time zones at once right now, right? We did that dope event together in Bangkok, but I was doing some traveling to Riyadh and Barcelona and Poland before that, and you were doing some traveling before and after too, right?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, exactly. Went to Korea for a little vacation and then came back to Texas. So still a little jet lag waking up at like 2, 3 in the morning, but it helps to answer all those messages before the day gets started.
Austin Lee: Yeah, I've tried all these apps and everything to help with time travel, but it's always sort of an interesting one-of-one experience. I just got back from the holidays in Baltimore with my family, and now I'm back in LA. I woke up at 3 a.m., so for those of you at home, the show must go on, even when you have a 3 a.m. wake-up call. It's great to have you here. And, you know, it's really, it's been great to sort of work with you guys and understand all the cool pioneering things you're doing in space. We'll get into all that. But I wanted to kick off by just learning more, a little bit more about your background. And what got you excited about bonds and blockchain technology?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, for sure. So I mean, I grew up, and was born in Greenfield, Indiana. So I kind of grew up on a deer farm. It was like driving your tractor to school. So I went to a very backwoods kind of country and ended up going to New York City to start working in traditional finance. So this was like Citibank, UBS, Bank of America. And I kind of got orange peeled in 2017. I remember trading like crypto kitties, Bitcoin, I think it was just a very exciting time in 2017. But I think in 2021, when I tapped into the DeFi. I realized there was really untapped potential when it came to DeFi. And I think that further got ingrained when I started traveling all over the world. I think for a lot of us, especially like in the United States or Europe, we don't understand the impact and true implications of DeFi and what it can really bring to not only different protocols, but also just the day to day individual looking to either get a loan or to earn additional money on the money that they do have. So for me, DeFi in 2021 is what I really got excited about. And again, just traveling, I think that really opened me up to seeing the possibility that I don't think I would have seen just being in the United States, staying in New York City.
Austin Lee: Yeah, that's really cool to get your perspective. And, you know, our timelines intersect in some ways. I got into space in 2017 as well. And then we started the podcast in early March 2021. But one of the earliest blockchain memories I have is a CryptoKitties meetup. in LA that folks who have listened to the show for a while heard about, but that was sort of one of those pivotal moments where I met Mac, one of the co-founders of CryptoKitties. It was like 10 of us just hanging out at a dive bar and, you know, CryptoKitties had just blown up. And I think he was still sort of dealing with the consequences of what happened. He didn't realize, you know, that a billion dollar company and a multi-billion dollar industry was going to form as a result of what those guys did.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I mean, it was truly kind of innovative what they did, especially at the beginning, right? Like I think NFTs were kind of popular in 2017, but they really brought it to life. I remember going to an event in Brooklyn, New York. And they auctioned off a Crypto Kitty, I think it was for like $100,000. And that's when people were going nuts. I should have realized retrospectively, I think that was kind of the peak in 2017. So going back, I would tell myself to sell everything then. But yeah, it was a great, great way to get into space.
Austin Lee: One peak, I think there's just, there's always another mountain, there's always another sort of new, innovative sort of technology that sort of integrates everything. But yeah, DeFi has been a relatively consistent, important part of the blockchain industry and sort of the future of sort of a more egalitarian world of equal opportunity using, you know, the financial system to one's own personal benefit more creatively without sort of the same sort of hindrances that have been there before. Bonds have also been a pretty long-term, stable, consistent part of traditional finance, but I think it's had a different sort of I'd say intersection point with blockchain and some of the other aspects of finance. And, you know, I think you guys have been really leading the charge there. So I would love your perspective on just first break down to our audience, how do bonds work in the context of decentralized finance space? And what are the unique opportunities that they present?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, so bonds are essentially like crowdsourced fundraising for projects that are post token generation. So there are projects that already have a token. They're essentially looking to find multiple investors to buy their token at like a slight discount with vested terms. So essentially just to kind of walk through an example, let's say we have Apple token, It's trading at a dollar right now. Apple protocol has a lot of Apple tokens and they're looking to get some USDC, whether that's for a listing or paying their developers or to start working with a marketing agency. So they would work with us at Apebond to essentially put the Apple token into our smart contracts. And so what our smart contracts do, it's essentially a secondary market. So think about it like a reverse auction. And let's say the discount is 5 cents. So let's say 95 cents. If nobody's buying it, it'll maybe continue to drop to, let's say, a 10 cent discount. But if somebody buys it, it's going to go back up. So it might be, let's say, 99 cents. So essentially, users will come in and buy this, they'll get an NFT, which will hold and kind of have those tokens locked over an extended period of time, let's say 30, 60, 90 days up to a year. So then the user with that NFT essentially gets those tokens unlocked every single day until that NFT has been completely vested and then they get those tokens. So it's similar to, you know, OTC when it comes from the traditional route, but this instead of finding one party and having such a large discount anywhere, usually anywhere from 35 to 50, For us, it's like, hey, let's get this into a lot of users' hands. And typically, that discount is anywhere from like 8% to 12%.
Austin Lee: That's really cool. And as I think about that type of technology, I think it lends itself, I'm guessing, to higher quality projects in this space that have sort of an implicit value proposition and sort of both sort of brand awareness versus like a really young project that maybe is a little bit more uncertain about the trajectory where people don't know how to value the risk, right? Would you say that it's important for projects that work with you that they have to have some sort of traction in the industry in order to get a proper assessment on those bonds?
Josh Kriger: I mean, really, we can work with anybody. I think for us, like we want to see a certain amount of liquidity that they have on, let's say, another decentralized exchange. So that way there is like, we can't be a secondary market if there's no primary market, right. So that's a big piece for us. And I guess to maybe hit on the second part a little bit, because I think the price discovery aspect is a really unique thing that we've found that a lot of projects are looking for, right? Because a lot of these tokens are kind of just trading at arbitrary prices. People don't really understand why that price is that price. So it actually opens up for price discovery. So when you're looking to essentially find a buyer for a large amount, not just a few dollars here and there, what's that discount that people are looking for? What's that real price that the market values those tokens at? I would say, yeah, like, you're exactly right. We can't just work on a project with bonds that don't have a primary market. And the cool thing is, for those that do have a primary market and aren't relatively new, we can help them find that price discovery for much larger buyers.
Austin Lee: And is this a sort of, um, platform and technology that works in a bull and bear market the same, or is it easier to sort of do this type of transaction when the market's going up?
Josh Kriger: That's a great question. I think people are always more excited when there's a bull market. I will say this is definitely one of those that works in the bull and the bear. because people are always looking for funds, right? People don't stop raising or talking to VCs or doing OTC deals just because it's a bull or a bear. In my opinion, if you treat bonds kind of like a DCA in a way, it's a great opportunity to continue to help fundraise and, you know, OTC your tokens onto a secondary market. But yeah, I would say you can really go in both ways, but definitely it's a lot easier for people to purchase when there's a bull market going on.
Austin Lee: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you guys recently had an article that discussed some of the traditional finance and innovative capital raising methods, including using bonds and comparing them to traditional finance. I'm curious, are there any specific industries or projects within Web3 that might benefit more from this type of fundraising? you know, when you look at your customer segments and you look at sort of this technology, where do you see the greatest traction?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I mean, I think we're really across the board. I think we're kind of especially on those hidden gems, right? I think VC fundraising is not not has not as hot as people expected it to be. So this really democratizes that fundraising space and allows people to, you know, get a bunch of different people into around whether that's working with us for a launchpad, or whether that's doing decentralized OTC for a bond. So I guess maybe to talk about another use case that's applicable outside of this is we don't always work with projects. Sometimes we're working with different VCs or different larger investors looking to essentially find an OTC buyer, multiple buyers, obviously, to sell their tokens. So I think this is a great way to not just work through, you know, the main liquidity pool or working through a sex. I think this is a great opportunity, a great way for people to fundraise or even kind of sell their tokens if they're looking to find, you know, multiple buyers to kind of buy up these tokens all at once.
Austin Lee: Makes sense. So let's cover the cross-chain interoperability side of things, because I think we've seen some marked improvements here. And I've heard of a number of new products that sort of have been proposed that they can do in any swap across any chain in real time. And that's starting to come to life. You guys have done some cross-chain technology integration in the past. What are your sort of thoughts on how you're going to expand the cross-chain side of this type of product?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, so I think this product is really applicable in growing cross-chain to really any network that has projects launching on there. So first, like for us, it's about being that launchpad and being that main launchpad for different networks, for example, like IOTA for us. And then we also have the opportunity to work with projects that have or blockchain networks that have their token on, let's say, ETH and their own blockchain network. So this is a great way. for those blockchain networks to build liquidity. So if we think about it, like, let's say GraphLink, we've worked with them, we essentially set up two bonds, one bond on Ethereum, and one bond on GraphLink. So by doing both of these, this helps drive traffic to their network and not just be on ETH. So for us, it's all about when we launch on and go cross-chain, it's all about creating an impact, whether that's helping projects raise capital, whether that's helping projects raise liquidity, or whether that's helping the blockchain network really drive traffic to their network through bonds. So in my opinion, bonds can really be anywhere that there's projects and tokens. So for us, it's all just about finding those right opportunities and then collaborating with those blockchain networks to have the most success.
Austin Lee: So obviously, this is a moving target. And we see new, you know, networks changing, you know, 8chan just launched and Abstract's launching soon. You know, the network tied to the Pudgy Penguin Empire, Solana still seems to be ripping, hitting all-time highs recently. When you look at the overall distribution of liquidity today, what's your perspective on where folks should consider starting and where they should consider going, or at least including in the mix? Do you have a top sort of five list of chains that you sort of see as sort of invaluable to the long-term success of projects. I know it's hard to pick your favorites and also recognize every project's difference. Just curious on your general thoughts on sort of liquidity and sort of how that relates to the bond sort of product that you guys focus on.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. And maybe just to touch on a little bit of the liquidity aspect. So when I say we're doing liquidity bonds, essentially for bonds, instead of choosing to give your token for, let's say, USDC, you're giving your token for an LP pair. So inherently, you're having the users or a bunch of users create LPs. So you're adding more liquidity. And then they're giving that for your token at a discount. And I think you hit it on the head. There's, I think, so much activity I see on base right now. I think today I was checking the transactions. It's almost 50x the gas prices that it normally is just with all the activity going on with all the AI agents. I would say Solana has just been really ripping this whole entire year, whether that be meme coins or great new innovations like, I would say like Jupe, what they've done for the whole DEX aggregator ecosystem. And then I would just say, just keep an eye out on those Bitcoin EVM networks, whether this is Core, I think Spider Labs or Spider Chain coming out, I think in the next couple of months, and then a few to keep a lookout for, which would be like Bear Chain, Sonium by Sony. And then, yeah, I would say those would probably be the five right there. The blockchain networks that are existing and some to keep a lookout for.
Austin Lee: Cool. I would like to add BitLayer to that list. They have a huge ecosystem they've built in a relatively short amount of time. They've been a partner of ours. know, for full disclosure for a while. And, you know, I am an advisor in that project, and I see them taking the right means necessary to build long term value as well in that sort of L2 space of Bitcoin.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, it's very much needed. I think there's not as many yield opportunities as people would like to see for Bitcoin. So I think it's only a matter of time before these Bitcoin DeFi ecosystems really start to blow up. And I think there will be quite a few of those in the near future.
Austin Lee: Let's talk about security and risk. I think that's a really important topic when we're dealing with DeFi, you know, given what's happened in the past. And, you know, I think we're still climbing out of that, that ditch as an industry. and will be for quite some time. When you look at sort of bond security and sort of the risks associated there, what do you think are the important strategies for mitigating as much risk as possible and sort of, you know, balancing innovation with these new fundraising mechanisms?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, so I definitely think it's balanced, right? Like, if you're ever developing novel code, you kind of are putting an opportunity to get hacked out there, which is a little bit unfortunate, especially when it's dealing with the project's money or other people's money. But it's important for us to have security be one of our top priorities, whether this is like a bug bounty that we have for our bonds code, or this is working with like top partners, security partners like Halborn to ensure that our code is good, you know, very secure before we put it out there. So we've been making a few updates and upgrades to our bond contracts. So we've done a couple of things like min max discounts. But again, just working with those security partners to make sure we've got everything, you know, tied up in a good place before we launch that bond with a new partner.
Austin Lee: Makes sense. Are there any new features coming up or sort of aspects of what you guys do that when folks ask you about your competition, you're, you're particularly excited. You're like, well, actually.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I think for us it is like the min and max discount. Um, I know there's a few different protocols that kind of have an open bond. So it's just the discount could go all the way up to, let's say like 100%. So basically, you're losing everything when somebody buys that token. But for us, we've essentially had that min and max discount. So we make sure that the partner's happy with whatever tokens they're putting out onto the secondary market, they're getting enough value that they want it in return. So I think that's the big innovation that we've had recently. And I think a couple of other things is like we've also recently introduced that users can essentially zap in from any token into to buy that bond. So let's say you're raising in USDC and then the user could swap Bitcoin for USDC. They could swap Pepe for USDC. They could swap whatever token they want to buy that bond. So that way it makes it a much better user experience.
Austin Lee: That's really cool. So, you know, it's getting towards the end of the year, so it's time for all of us to sort of take out our crystal balls and pretend we have a sense of where all this crazy innovation is going. When you look at bonds over the next sort of five years or so and on some of those sleepless nights dealing with all these time zone changes, where do you see sort of this whole movement progressing and are there any specific trends or developments that you're excited about in terms of the future where this can go?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I think for us, it's really tapping into those locked tokens. So we've been playing in the liquid token market. So tokens that are readily available. But for us in those innovations, I would say in the next two, three years would be really pushing on those locked vested tokens. So whether this is working with a VC looking to offload their position with the best and locked tokens, whether this is a foundation, Or let's say it's an employee who is a millionaire on paper and wants to really start capitalizing on that. And I think this really goes past the Web3 aspect and just like the crypto side of things. But I think we can start playing into the Web2 space for pre-IPO companies and essentially trading those employee stock options on an open and transparent market with bonds.
Austin Lee: That's exciting. I mean, if that becomes possible, that opens up a tremendous amount of opportunity for founders. It's so hard to be an entrepreneur these days. And you put so much of the value in the future value of your company, right? And to have the ability to sort of tap into some of that essentially earlier can make all the difference for big life choices like buying a house, getting married, you know, while you're also sort of building this company that, you know, has a lot of that inherent value of your own sort of passion in it. So I know there's been a lot of different attempts at this, but this sounds like this would take that type of possibility to the next level.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I really would. I think it'd make a huge difference in people's lives to tap into really illiquid markets, especially when they're rich on paper, but you know, don't have that liquid capital when they need it the most.
Austin Lee: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Cool. Well, we want to get to know you better. But before we do any other closing thoughts that you wanted to share with our audience on what you guys are up to and what's going on in the world of bonds and DeFi?
Josh Kriger: I think, yeah, just keep on the lookout for 8Bond. I know we've just closed. I think like, we're going to be working with five different partners just this week into next week. So I would keep a lookout on 8Bond for all those new bonds that are going to be popping up over the next couple of weeks as we go into the end of the year.
Austin Lee: All right. Well, congrats on ending the year with a bang. It was really fun to do that event together in Bangkok. We had this beautiful venue right on the water. You know, we had the sunset and then, of course, it rained, which happens a lot in Thailand. But it was great because no one wanted to leave. So we had them well fed and, you know, plenty of drinks. So everyone was good to go.
Josh Kriger: There you go. Keep them happy. Yeah, that was an incredible event. And I appreciate that, Josh, for helping us put all that together. I think we had some great sponsors like Animoca, HowlBorne, FIO, and InReach. So I'm very happy to do that with you guys and I'm looking forward to doing another one.
Austin Lee: It was a lot of fun. All right. Well, let's jump to our next segment and get to know you a little bit better. OK. Well, Austin, you've got a really interesting background. So this will be fun. Edge quick hitters is a fun way to get to know you better. There's 10 questions. We're looking for just a short single or few word response. Feel free to expand if you get the urge. Are you ready? Yeah, let's do it. All right. What's the first thing you remember ever purchasing in your life?
Josh Kriger: CD. Which one? It was, I think it was Green Day, American Idiot. I don't know why that was the first thing that I purchased, aside from candy at a gas station, but I think that was like the first big purchase I had.
Austin Lee: Cool. Classic. I think I've heard enough Green Day for one lifetime at this point in my life.
Josh Kriger: I couldn't get enough of it at the time.
Austin Lee: I agree, but I think I have now. My plate is full there, but I'm a classic fan for sure. What is the first thing you remember ever selling in your life?
Josh Kriger: The first thing I remember selling is breadsticks. That was the first thing I remember selling. And we did this business class, I think it was like in middle school, and I sold breadsticks at lunch to all of my classmates.
Austin Lee: Okay, so you helped them carb load, just what everyone needs. So I think that's the first. We've done about 380 episodes and no one has sold breadsticks that I can recall.
Josh Kriger: I just remember it was like, We sold breadsticks. This was before all the changes happened for lunch. It was like breadsticks and monsters. That's what people's lunches were in middle school back in the day. So I'm glad things have changed since then.
Austin Lee: But yes. I don't know. Maybe some places, but I wouldn't say universally. Yeah, true. I think some people still, after they leave high school, they're still having breadsticks and monsters. Maybe keto breadsticks and sugar-free monsters.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, maybe we need to get them on a gluten-free one.
Austin Lee: Yeah. What is the most recent thing you purchased?
Josh Kriger: The most recent thing I purchased would have to be something with, I think it was like a rug. I just bought it on Amazon. So yeah, nothing too exciting there.
Austin Lee: All right. Oh, everyone needs a rug. It's getting cold out. What, what is the most recent thing you sold?
Josh Kriger: Most recent thing I sold was a necklace. Okay. Yeah, I brought it to the local pawn shop or yeah, basically it was one of those where I got a necklace for free after buying some necklaces and Essentially, I just didn't want to keep that so I put it in the pawn shop and got rid of it.
Austin Lee: Yeah Keep the ones that really have value to you which sort of leads to our next question. What is your most prized possession? Hmm
Josh Kriger: I would say my cold plunge.
Austin Lee: Nice. I, I, why did we not cold plunge while we're in Bangkok? I didn't know that you're a cold plunge guy too. So I have a gym now down the street and my goal is to do about 15 minutes a week of cold plunging.
Josh Kriger: Oh, nice. Yeah, I do every day. I usually do it for three minutes. What's the temperature you're at?
Austin Lee: So it changes based on how their, uh, cold plunges are functioning. It's somewhere between like 43 and 53 most of the time. How about you?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah. I, uh, I usually do probably about 45 to 50 just depending how good I'm feeling at the time. Because sometimes 45 degree water in the morning is just like, okay, this is too cold. Why am I doing this?
Austin Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I hear you and you know, I do have those days, but when I sauna first, I can do up to eight minutes. Um, you know, cold plunge and not, uh, not health advice, but, uh, I took a course with, uh, an expert in this and, He said it's really a personal thing about where your sort of shivers start. That's when the juice really kicks in in terms of the benefit. So, you know, sometimes it just takes me a while to start shivering.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I guess I probably need to stay a little bit longer because I get comfortable after a couple minutes. It's like, all right, I could just stay here for the rest of the day. Keep going.
Austin Lee: Keep going. Yeah, we'll have to test this out. So next time you could plunge, do it until like 30 seconds beyond you start shivering and tell me how long that took.
Josh Kriger: All right, I'll text you. I'll let you know.
Austin Lee: Sounds good. So next question, if you could buy anything in the world, digital physical service experience is currently for sale. What would it be?
Josh Kriger: Oh man, I would have to say a puppy. I think my fiance and I are ready to get a puppy. And it'd probably be a little, uh, a miniature dachshund, little wiener dog.
Austin Lee: Small dog. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I just had a lot of, uh, puppy time at, um, with my girlfriend's mother's dog in Baltimore. Georgie, he is a ginormous puppy, but he's still a puppy. Cute guy.
Josh Kriger: All dogs are puppies to me.
Austin Lee: Nice. If you could pass on one of your personality traits to the next generation, what would it be?
Josh Kriger: That's a curiosity. I would say curiosity.
Austin Lee: That's a good one. And if you could eliminate one of your personality traits from the next generation, what would it be if you had a CRISPR?
Josh Kriger: Oh, man. I would probably say just rigidness. I think sometimes I can be a little too rigid with routine and just myself and being able to allow for that flexibility and freedom I think would be great for the next generation.
Austin Lee: I feel you. It's a balance. What did you do just before joining us on the podcast?
Josh Kriger: I did a cold plunge. Nice.
Austin Lee: All right. My cold plunge was, you know, leaving the house at 3 a.m. in Baltimore. It was pretty cold out.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. It's getting cold enough outside where it's like I walked outside, came in and cold plunged. I'm like, this isn't even cold. Like, what am I doing?
Austin Lee: So what do you do? What's the plan? What are you going to do next after the podcast?
Josh Kriger: I am, I think I'm going to prepare for a call. I think I got another call after this one.
Austin Lee: Cool, cool. So I always like to ask our guests a fun bonus question. And the one that comes to mind for me is, of all the places you've been able to travel for leisure or business, what's been the most memorable spot that you recommend people put on their bucket list?
Josh Kriger: I would say Bali. I know it's very cliche, but Bali is just one of those places, especially if you love the cold plunge and just like the very wellness activities. It's also like there's many great DJs playing in Chengdu in Bali, and I feel like its people are just so nice there too. It's easy for English native speakers to get around. So I would say Bali is one of my favorite places, especially from the Web3 space. It feels like you're at a conference every single week because they usually have like three to five Web3 events every single week.
Austin Lee: Yeah, I haven't experienced the Web3 scene there, but I did go there to chill after a big event. And it was definitely a magical spot. I want to spend more time there. So if you haven't been to Bali yet, check it out. It's not just talk. It really is worth experiencing for yourself. So good tips there. Yeah.
Josh Kriger: Well, it also has the most canceled return tickets. It's a fun fact.
Austin Lee: Oh, there you go. Which, yeah, which is good to know. So more reasons to check out Bali. Austin, this has been great getting to know you more, getting to know Apon more. You guys have a really fun roadmap coming up and a really professional approach to sort of elevating the Web3 industry. Where should folks go if they want to sort of learn more about you guys, maybe try to find a way to work together or participate in one of these upcoming bonds?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, you can check out our website at ape.bond. Um, you can also check us out on Twitter at eight bonds. You can message me at B awesome Lee on telegram, or you can follow me on Twitter there as well.
Austin Lee: All right. Lots of good options for getting in touch and, uh, definitely worth, uh, diving down that rabbit hole more if you haven't already. Uh, thanks Austin for hanging out with us today.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. Thanks Josh. I really appreciate you having me on.
Austin Lee: It's been a pleasure, man. So we've reached the outer limit at the edge of NFT for today. Thanks for exploring with us. We've got space for more adventures on the Starship. So invite your friends or create some cool strangers that'll make this journey all so much better. How? If you're amongst the hundreds of thousands of folks following us on Spotify or iTunes or iHeartRadio or watching on Myko or YouTube, just hit the subscribe button, rate us and say something awesome. Also, please pass this episode on to a friend or two that would get something out of it. And just remember to check out myco.io. That's M-Y-C-O dot I-O, where you can watch and earn your time and attention. Lastly, be sure to tune in next time for more great Web 3 content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us today.
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