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In this special episode, recorded live at Bitlayer’s Investor Night during Token 2049 in Dubai, Josh Kriger is joined by Charlie Hu, co-founder of Bitlayer. Join them as they dive deep into the evolution of Bitcoin, the future of Web3 infrastructure, and how Bitlayer is building key components for the next decade of blockchain innovation.
Charlie shares his journey from supporting Polkadot and Polygon to founding Bitlayer, his thoughts on Bitcoin’s long-term dominance, and why he believes the Bitcoin Layer 2 ecosystem is poised to be the future of decentralized finance and NFTs. Tune in to discover Bitlayer’s mission, the story behind their "Lucky Helmet" NFTs, and how they are incentivizing the ecosystem through their “Ready Player 1” program.
This episode is brought to you by Bitlayer – revolutionizing the Bitcoin ecosystem with Layer 2 solutions
Please enjoy!
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Key Topics Covered:
- Charlie Hu’s Journey in Blockchain: From Polkadot and Polygon to founding Bitlayer, Charlie shares his experiences and lessons learned in the Web3 space.
- Bitcoin Layer 2 and DeFi: Why Charlie believes Bitcoin Layer 2 infrastructure is the key to scaling Bitcoin and unlocking its full potential for DeFi and NFTs.
- The Power of Community in Web3: How Bitlayer is fostering a community-driven ecosystem with their innovative “Ready Player 1” incentive program for developers and builders.
- Lucky Helmet NFTs: The story behind Bitlayers “Lucky Helmet” NFTs and their significance within the ecosystem, offering potential airdrops and benefits to holders.
- The Role of Dubai in the Web3 Ecosystem: Charlie explains why Dubai and the UAE have become strategic hubs for Web3 projects and what the future holds for this vibrant region.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- Charlie Hu on Bitcoin’s Future: “Making history with Bitcoin—there’s nothing more important than contributing to the future of the Bitcoin ecosystem.” [Timestamp: 08:30]
- On Building Layer 2 Infrastructure: “Bitcoin’s potential is far from realized. With Layer 2, we’re building the foundation for decentralized applications on the most secure network in the world.” [Timestamp: 15:45]
- Lucky Helmet NFTs Explained: “By holding a Lucky Helmet NFT, you’re not just a part of the community—you’re at the forefront, with the chance to receive exclusive airdrops and benefits in the ecosystem.” [Timestamp: 28:10]
For the full transcript, see further below.
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About Our Guest
Charlie Hu is the co-founder of Bitlayr, a Bitcoin Layer 2 ecosystem builder focused on creating decentralized infrastructure for Bitcoin and NFTs. Charlie has a deep history in blockchain, having contributed to Polkadot and Polygon and invested in several Web3 projects. With Bitlayer, Charlie aims to revolutionize the Bitcoin ecosystem through innovative protocols and community-driven incentives.
- Linkedin: Charlie Yechuan Hu
- Twitter: @CharlieHusats
- Website: Bitlayer
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Full Episode Transcript:
Josh Kriger: Hi, everyone. This is Josh Krieger. I'm here live at token 2049. This is a very special episode at Bitlayer's investor night, and this is part of a Dubai roadshow that's sponsored by Bitlayer. Tonight, we're speaking with Charlie Hu, one of the cofounders and a dear friend of mine. What's up, Charlie? What's up, Josh? Good to have you. It's, it's just good to be here with you, Janney, and and, you know, we've been through so much together Absolutely. Since we met on that faithful, afternoon.
Josh Kriger: I think it was a Saturday afternoon in NFT Beach Yeah. At one of your events and, from the boot from the bed to the boot. From the bat to the bull. And, you know, I've seen you evolve in this space over that time. You've seen us evolve, and I think, you were looking for that right something that really got you excited. I saw you in that quest. Yes. For a while.
Josh Kriger: And it was AI for those, that don't know Charlie, and we'll we'll get to know him together today, and this is I don't think you've actually been officially on the show, so this is really a better time for me. Yeah. For those that don't know Charlie, he is tenacious, and he is one of the most curious individuals I've ever met. And I felt like you were gonna find something special. I didn't know what that thing was. And when you told me what you're doing, it all made sense. So I'm really excited to learn more about Bitlayer and what you're building.
Josh Kriger: Why don't you just, like, start by sharing your vision here?
Charlie Hu: Sure. First of all, thank you very much, Josh. I really appreciate all the support and help. Super glad to have you guys with us along the Janney. I know you've been very helpful. You know, I think our my vision is, like, all the way from the first principle. Right? I've been in the space almost 10 years now. AI done a lot of things, made made some mistakes.
Charlie Hu: I'm being scammed by some people as well. I built some stuff. I made some contribution to the space early for Polkadot and then for Polygon, and I also investing as an investor, investing in NFTRA as a product investor and AI, and a lot of other projects Jeff well. So back to the principle. Right? We, as an industry for blockchain, has been in the space for a while has been for a while. It's not a it's AI a young industry, but we have 15 years already. There's a lot of things happen. So moving forward, if you ask me, what kind of company can survive in 10 years later? I have only 2 answers.
Charlie Hu: 1 is a very exciting company called Coinbase, which is very regulated, very professional. I participated in their their stock offering, their IPO. Oh, nice. Yeah. It must be doing well. Right? And then Oh,
Josh Kriger: it's it it had its ups and downs, but I think it's on the way up. I never sold.
Charlie Hu: Oh, great. That's good to know. Yeah. I think I mean, if if it's, like, NFT as a equity company, they are the one only one AI believe who would definitely survive 10 years later. And the other one is Bitcoin. With all due respect for all the other things, with Ethereum, I was the ETH builder, and I know a lot of proof of stake chain, AI, Solana and so on. A lot of new ones like BariChain kinda doing interesting stuff. Right? But if AI I Kelley can pick 1, 100% of survive 10 years later, that's Bitcoin.
Charlie Hu: So, you know, our slogan in Bitlayer is making history with Bitcoin of for Bitcoin. Right? Because that's the only thing I feel like it makes so much sense, and it makes me feel so inspired that there's no other thing which is more important besides making money along the ways. Making money is a byproduct, but creating history for the industry, like, there's nothing more important than doing that for Bitcoin ecosystem. Right?
Josh Kriger: Yeah. I think there's been a lot of, conversation around is Bitcoin's dominance decreasing and, you know, does it really provide the store of value? And and I think that happens during the bear market. But then, ultimately, as the world has gotten more complicated, there's one thing that's true, which is that Bitcoin continues to be one of the highest performing assets of all asset classes in the world. Right?
Charlie Hu: Yes. It's been outperforming every single asset class in the world in the last 15 years. Although there's some bear market, you know, there's some downturn. It's volatile. It's getting more and more stable now. Right? Sometimes even more kinda boring, you know, I think couple of months ago, it was AI didn't really move up and down. It was it was being so stable being, like, very boring because people get used to that volatility. Right? Yeah.
Charlie Hu: Indeed. Because of the principle, the first principle, the ultrasound money, you know, 21,000,000 hard cap programmed in the in the code. Right? Every 10 to 15 minutes, there's a new block with rewards. There's no other additional supply that you can get. Right? There's a lot of Bitcoin in history being just perpetually locked in because some of the wallets, right, that people forgot their private keys are locked in to some of vault and stuff. So the circulation circulation supply of Bitcoin is capped. Right? And then whereas the demand in terms of mass adoption, in terms of using Bitcoin to do all kinds of things, is getting more and more, Things really get changed, I think, with I was just sharing in the on the stage as well. You know, with the Taproot asset operation, you know, people can actually put things put data, creating interesting assets on Bitcoin network.
Charlie Hu: Right? And using Bitcoin as a gas fee to do inscription, you know, trading. AI, all of a sudden, from this a bit boring, ultra sound money, you know, to start a value now become, you know, this secure, decentralized, AI potentially programmable network. Right? Whereas native Bitcoin is, like, the m zero for money market, and now with Bitcoin layer 2 and many other new interesting infrastructure layer can create interesting stuff on top of it.
Josh Kriger: So that's all great. I mean, the Maxis would say, you know, just leave Bitcoin alone. But but, you know, everyone else in the Bitcoin ecosystem, the Sodomax is pretty excited about the potential to to build here. And Yeah. I'd like to better understand what what are you building and why is Bitlayer, in your mind a vital part of the future?
Charlie Hu: Yeah. Thanks for the question. Before I answer directly on the question, I wanna I wanna I wanna also AI address the whole Maxi's perspective. Right? So Bitcoin has been very kinda the holy land, right, for some people. Some people wanna protect it. They don't wanna see some kind of random weirdness coming along the ways. But it's a free market. Bitcoin has been one of the most decentralized, you know, permissionless network.
Charlie Hu: Right? So the miners, the users make the decision collectively as a whole. Right? So for people, as long as there's a product market fit, right, it makes sense. Right? That's kind of philosophical reason. There's a demand and there's supply And there's a way there's a reason certain things exist. Right? Obviously, some laser eyes of some people who are on the conservative side don't want anything happening in Bitcoin except you mind the Bitcoin, put in their storage for code wallet. Right? You know, and before Of, so, you know, the now the upcoming Bitcoin layer 2 of Bitcoin DeFi, Bitcoin as a asset has been zero interesting asset, no with no yield bearing at all. Right? Is this really the ultimate destination? Is that actually supposed to be just like that? It it's debatable.
Charlie Hu: Right? But, with Ordinals last year, in the beginning, I don't get it either. Right? Why we need the Bitcoin NFTs? Right? What does it even mean? We have Ethereum NFT doing interesting stuff already. Although people argue, you know, it's JPEG with metadata, you're buying the metadata, not buying the actual JPEG. Bitcoin on all of those is actually natively inscribed on Bitcoin a 1. Right? So you're buying the true things. It's immutable. It's immutable. It's tamper proof.
Charlie Hu: It's on Bitcoin, which is more valuable than Ethereum. So things like that happen. But that's one thing for me may move the needle. People are willing to spend their hard earned Bitcoin as a gas fee, you know, even higher than the normal way for trading. They're actually paying additional SaaS gas fee doing certain gas work, so doing certain minting period, doing something, you know, Of mint. Right? Why? Because they like the assets. It because certain reason of our social consensus, because of the culture, because this degenerous, this is gonna pump. Right? You know, there was some asset that really just increased their volume a value of, like, 100 x, a a 1000x for a photo.
Charlie Hu: Right? So there's certain people genuinely a lot of more Bitcoin by participating there. Right? So the whole product market fit was there after a while, and that's it was even bigger than a lot of people thought. Right? So you can argue we don't need any of that. You can choose not to use it, but the market and the community made a decision collectively. Right? And then that we can we can tell from the results there was so many new BRC 20 or all the other kind of Bitcoin native assets being minted, being inscribed, being traded, and NFT assets being the you know, they succeed in the past, the trading volume there,
Josh Kriger: And and top projects have moved over to Exactly. Like, what YUGA's done and what On Chain Monkeys have done. Yep. You know, we've talked about that
Charlie Hu: On the show. And now let me kind of answer your question about Kelley. Yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of talk about it. Head back back one. Absolutely. So for me to start Bitlayer was because I saw a lot of asset protocols on there while we're there.
Charlie Hu: Cassie said they want he want to start Rune, which is more technical elegant protocol since last September in Singapore. Well, I live in Singapore, by the way. I met Domo Cassie last year. I learned Jeff on them, but AI mind should start shifting. Okay. The Bitcoin ecosystem really to grow and scale in the long run, we need either off chain protocol solutions or layer 2. Right? And then my background building you know, doing ecosystem building for poke Polygon, and I saw a lot of, you know, interesting Ethereum to, like, arbitrage optimism, and my NFT still working there, you know, full time. I learned a lot from Ethereum, and I think Bitcoin should could have a very good interesting layer 2 ecosystem.
Charlie Hu: Right? So, essentially, it's very important. And as we start doing research about, you know, what's the existing technology, what's available, what can be done, what are the kind of remaining question, why there's no, like, 20, 30, even 100 big quantity or 2 in the past. What happened? Right? So So we realized, okay, there's 2 problems. 1, you know, there's a bunch of side chain. Right? You just threw whatever Bitcoin bridge, as a bridge from Bitcoin layer went to the side AI. But the side chain doesn't necessarily inherit the Bitcoin security. So for people who don't really trust this side chain, they don't like to bridge. Right? They don't like to to the when things happen in the side chain, your asset cannot exodus.
Charlie Hu: Right? Take put out Kelley back back to Bitcoin layer 1. So that's that's a key difference. We wanna build a Bitcoin security equipment layer 2. Users can chip in and and, you know, pull out the assets seamlessly just like a robot. That happened in Ethereum already. But because of Bitcoin, the architect is fundamentally different. There's no tooling completeness. There's no smart contract.
Charlie Hu: Right? So you couldn't do that. Right? So we saw the white paper, BBM, right, with this, very interesting idea came by this gentleman from Germany, Robert Lennox. He came up with this model with logic gateways using the existing Bitcoin scripting language to build that, right, for verification and proof. So if I was, AI, wow. It's interesting because there's 2 things with very, very beautiful design about this white paper, like, b v n. 1, it doesn't require soft fork or hard fork or any VIPs. So for the for the people who know about the history of Bitcoin, it's just a freaking pain in the ass and takes forever to get a VIP approved because there's a lot of politics going on. The miners don't get it.
Charlie Hu: It takes really many years of mind share to understand what's the pros and cons and NFT get a, you know, get it passed through. Right? TapTools took them three and a half years to get the operation. For us to have another operation or even hard fork or soft fork, it will be detrimental to the network even. They happen with history on BSC BSB and BCH. Right? So I don't think people want another hard fork. Right? So BBM using existing opt in scripting language to allow people to do that, it's so exciting. That's the reason we start that. You know, I quickly reconnect with my the guy who I know, the best engineer in Asia who I know since 2021.
Charlie Hu: That's kind of why we start the journey. Right? Because, you know, with the best engineers, with AI technical innovation and a vision with that, we can grow very fast. We have been growing very fast in the last 6 months from just literally 2 of us now over 55 people now. We raised our seed round AI quickly and successfully back to that.
Josh Kriger: Like OKEx NFT has been a big supporter of the Bitcoin ecosystem. Yeah. Lots of great stuff coming up too. I mean, you have your main NFT, and and you launched your first NFT. Right? Yes. So tell us a little bit about that.
Charlie Hu: Yeah. Since since we're talking to the NFT guru here Yeah.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. Let's let's get into the NFT side.
Charlie Hu: Okay. Sure. Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's autonomous protocol assets. Right? It's inscribed, dump, pick 1 layer 1, would be eventually on our layer 2, and kind of Lucky lucky helmet? It's called lucky helmet. Kind of, kind of, just a random name. Nothing very technical. Nothing very academic.
Charlie Hu: We AI to make it long down to the earth for people to understand what is a helmet, what is why it's lucky. Right? Because by holding that asset, you potentially not NFT% guarantee, potentially can get x interesting additional assets with airdrop from our ecosystem. Right? You will be part of as a OG, considered as a OG holding that. It's a 5 k series, NFT a ridiculously huge supply. And, for people who hold that, AI, that wallet is, you know, interact with many other ecosystem, you know, protocols AI our DEXs, our restaking protocol, our perpetual DEXs, you know, that have additional yield, additional priority, additional benefits. So that it's additional utility on our ecosystem. Right? So we wanna do that AI always having fun. So why helmet, right, if you ask me? It's because from a product design side, building it with big VM, with our the things we're trying to build Kelley, we want to be the Bitcoin engine.
Charlie Hu: Bitcoin has been slow. Bitcoin didn't innovate. So we I like I'm I personally, as a as a very big race car fan, we want to be the engine, right, for Bitcoin. Bitcoin has been a slow car, and then we choose the the color, orange color, literally same color, this color code from the car.
Josh Kriger: Earlier, you were saying this is you you downplayed this, but there's a lot of thought that's gone into these helmets.
Charlie Hu: Yes. Wait. I wanna make it so dumb down, easy to understand. It's obvious. Come on. It's a helmet. Right? You can read that.
Charlie Hu: Josh wait just AI NFT. You can understand it's a helmet. So it's very simple, but there's a lot of thought behind that. Right? Yeah. But the history the old story behind that is basically one bit of engine. It's a orange color. I'm a McLaren NFT, subjectively. Right? And some people like it, some people don't like it, some people rent a NFT fan.
Charlie Hu: Kelley, when you live in
Josh Kriger: Singapore, you gotta be into racing. Right?
Charlie Hu: Yeah. Formula 1 every year in Singapore is best NFT AI race around the world. I I've been there 7 times. Every year, it's been great Janney. After Tokyo AI, right, you had a good time with a lot of old crypto friends. But, AI is a very good, you know, race car brand. That's the only brand with this color, the orange color. That's why we we feel like it's interesting.
Charlie Hu: So I feel like everybody could be a driver for the ecosystem, for web 3. You need to be AI safely. Security first. Right? That's our first principle. You need what? You need a helmet.
Josh Kriger: I love it.
Charlie Hu: You need a helmet. Right? So that that's the reason behind that.
Josh Kriger: Cool. Well, that that's one part of some of the unique ecosystem building you're doing, you know, using a lot of your experience and what you've learned at Polygon Yep. And, you know, through all the different investments you've done. But the other part is, of course, you you need an ecosystem incentive program. Right? Every every good l one, l two needs an ecosystem incentive program. And you have a fun one. You're calling Kelley player 1.
Charlie Hu: Yep.
Josh Kriger: So maybe you can break that down for us too.
Charlie Hu: Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for the question. First of all, we learned from a lot of the other existing successful ecosystem player. Right? Some other chains have been very interestingly engineered some kind of incentive program. Some of the playbook has been pretty successful, you know, quickly, very effectively, and and bring a lot of developers and users on board. So we learned Jeff from other ecosystem, including Blast, and now with, you know, Solana, a few others. So we wanna attract a lot of the the existing proof of stake ecosystem developers, like Ethereum layer twos, even Solana, a few others, by providing them proof of stake, even compatible, I know, programmability together with Solana v and and MoveV in the future.
Charlie Hu: Right? This incentive program with Ready Player 1 is for the people to be first mover. Right? You always want the the little kind of kick. Right? It's just AI just like we're saying, we we are building an engine for Bitcoin. Right? We need this first boost, right, to initiate. So is this is a kind of initiation for running, launching our ecosystem as a fast car. Right? We want to speed up further and further. But in the beginning from, you know, idle to speed up, we need this program as an engine. Right? So red and blue one, we are generously giving up almost 5% in time to total AI of governance token to the ecosystem builders.
Charlie Hu: You know, as a first batch, I think that's pretty helpful. We are in talks with a lot of interesting builders who really wants to stay with us long term, not just be the bounty hunters. So people come to us. They're not gonna, by default, get NFT token. Right? We have our ecosystem leaderboards with very fair, transparent, but very clear rule set. They need to provide value. We need to know what they're doing. Jeff definitely needs to be a real builders, not like some potential rep cooler.
Charlie Hu: Right? All all kind of things. And then also they when they provide real on chain, you know, transactions, liquidity, and a few other things, we're able to support them based on the, you know, on chain data and so on and so forth. So it's performance and data driven. And we are willing, generously AI value and rewards to the good projects. Right? I think that's the feedback we wanna create. That's what AI did very well with GMX and Games. That's Polygon did it quite AI with Quickswap. And Solana did it quite well with a lot of the top project, you know, with Solana DXs.
Charlie Hu: We saw that with with Blast as well, and they generated a lot of hype from the community. We're trying to be careful, Oh, be Carthon. Right? Not giving too much random token to some bounty hunters, which, you know, just create NFT a sell pressure, which is not good. So, yeah, that's pretty much it about Kelley Player and Program. Exciting stuff. And we'll get more into the road map on this journey because we're going to, Hong Kong next, which I'm really excited about.
Josh Kriger: I've never been to Hong Kong NFT is Richard.
Charlie Hu: Okay.
Josh Kriger: He's not in this show because he lost his voice, but I know he'll get it back before we we get over to Hong Kong. But in the meantime, you know, let's just talk about this region, briefly. For sure. Every time I've been in Dubai, you've been here too. Yes. And and, I know you have family in Singapore, and it's a big deal for you to make all these trips to this region.
Charlie Hu: Why do you think the UAE is so important? Absolutely. First of all, UAE is the center of the world, AI wise, geographically wise, and so on. AI as a city has been very innovating about the policy. They have there are a few other kind of reg Edge, jurisdiction that are very pro crypto, you know, crypto friendly. A lot of companies register here with a license. Like, that's all public information. I'm learning from all the AI of events, all kind of of, and their expertise our experts, right, that shared with us. That well, by the way, we are very AI to partner with Dubai Blockchain Center.
Charlie Hu: Doctor AI is the man. Right? He has been helping us quite a lot, through all the Dubai trips. I think Dubai has very interesting edge, interesting advantage being the center of the world, being very open minded, and sitting on, you know, on the AI showed up Abu Dhabi and a few other interesting capital NFT in the in, you know, in Middle East region. And, there's a lot of good talents just basically pouring into the city. Right? It's very global, has people from all over the world. Definitely, they took some benefits because of the unfortunate geographic reasons, right, with some war NFT a proxy war and so on. A lot of good talents didn't live in Dubai. Now they're just gathered together.
Charlie Hu: It's so easy to meet a lot of people from all over the world. Token NFT AI this week has been very, very effective, meeting a lot of top KOLs, builders, investors. For us, it's very important. We don't want to be only Asia driven. Last year in BRC 20, 60% of trading volume of of BRC NFT are essentially just Asia East Asia. Right? China, Southeast Asia, and so on. I'm Chinese, living Singapore for 4 years already. I know South Asia, especially Vietnam, Philippine, Malaysia quite well.
Charlie Hu: We have colleagues over there, Thailand as well. UAE has been a very important market, right, as a region. It's not just, you know, as a as a country and as a region. It's a NFT of the Middle East region across of kind of Qatar, Saudi. We're going to I'm very looking forward to your event a couple of days later in Riyadh. So I think UAE is Kelley strategic for all of lot of the Web 3 projects. Right? For any product who wants to go global, wants to be decentralized community tapping to different region, it's just simply very silly and, you know, stupid to say we don't need a UE. It's a such very strategic, place for us.
Charlie Hu: You talk about Hong Kong. Right? I will get you around. I I know Hong Kong very well.
Josh Kriger: Can't wait.
Charlie Hu: Yes. Hong Kong, by the way, have a lot of exciting news, recent news. They just approved the e Bitcoin ETF and Ethereum ETF officially. So the Hong Kong government is being I don't know it's competition or French, AI, collaboration. UAE government and Hong Kong government has been very helping each other with AI agenda of pushing Web 3, pushing crypto in the adoption.
Josh Kriger: So this, road trip of ours in and this series is really, synergistic in in that sense. So we chose these 2 places to do some initial content together. And we'll we'll dive deeper into the road map and how folks can get involved in the next episode of, this series. But in the meantime, where do people go to learn more about Bitlayer and dive down the rabbit hole?
Charlie Hu: Yeah. I think the best way is to follow us on Twitter. We try to share as much, at least, information as possible on Twitter. There's a lot of information actually every day. We're tweeting. There's a lot of events going on. There's a lot of the AMAs. And, of course, more importantly, there's a lot of, you know, important announcement in terms of Ready Player 1, in terms of of partnership, in terms of, you know, the concrete, long, well thoughted technical articles and information we're sharing.
Charlie Hu: We're talking about DLC, discrete log contract technology. We're talking with BitVM, which we're working on as AI of the first Asia team, probably top 3 in the world, working on that, not just saying and then waiting, but actually working on that. So that's kind of the best way to stay on top of what's going on. Telegram and Discord is another channel.
Josh Kriger: And you're also on Twitter or x. I'll never get that right.
Charlie Hu: But We I keep seeing Twitter. Yeah. It's x. Yeah.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's your x handle
Charlie Hu: for it's called @CharlieHusats. I try to be as much, you know, active as possible as well. On average, I'm on Twitter space once a day, sometimes even 3 times a day. We get invited by a lot of media partner, and ecosystem partner. We sometimes even just improvise. We feel like we have something to chat about. You just get on Twitter, x, you know, x, space.
Josh Kriger: Yeah. And you've had some really interesting longer, threads on on where the ecosystem is at and your thoughts over the last year or 2 that I Kelley enjoyed. So, this has been great. On the on the eve of the, this has been a really special Yes. Conversation for me, and I'm just so excited about Bitlyr and what's to come. We're very selective with our partners and our sponsors. And and for me, this was a no brainer to to work together and make sure the world knows more about what you're up to. So with that, we've reached the outer limit at the edge of NFT for today.
Josh Kriger: Thanks for exploring with us on this starship, and invite some friends and cool strangers on this adventure and make this journey also much better. How? If you're listening, go to Spotify or iTunes right NFT. Rate us and say something awesome. Or if you're watching this on YouTube, join over a 125,000 others following by hitting the subscribe button. Pass this episode on to a friend or 2. Be sure to tune in next time for more great web 3 content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us today. Thank you very much.
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