In this episode of Edge of NFT, Boris Basilis, founder of Wander, discusses the future of blockchain gaming, highlighting the importance of accessible, high-quality gaming experiences through innovative streaming technology. He shares insights on user acquisition, community engagement, and the evolving landscape of Web3, emphasizing the potential for creators and gamers alike.
This episode is brought to you by WNDR, a company bridging the gap between gamers and internet users with high-quality, browser-based gaming experiences.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Blockchain Gaming Innovations: Boris discusses the rapid advancements in blockchain gaming, emphasizing the importance of browser-based experiences and the integration of AI to enhance gameplay and accessibility for a wider audience.
- Wander's Streaming Technology: The conversation highlights Wander's groundbreaking streaming technology that allows high-quality, console-level games to be played directly in a browser, making gaming more accessible across various devices without the need for downloads.
- Community and Creator Economy: Boris emphasizes the significance of community engagement and the creator economy in gaming, discussing how Wander aims to empower creators by providing tools for them to develop and monetize their own IPs within a shared ecosystem.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- "I think for me, the way that I look at it is premium quality games for everyone, right? And when I say that, like, you know, I used to watch my friends, you know, play on their Xbox and PlayStation... If you could touch that and click, within a second, and the experience that you have in using your virtual controller into truly an immersive, fast-paced, hyper-real game, it really changes what you think is capable on the internet." - Boris Basilis (00:08:09)
- "We created the streaming technology. One, I'm a creator. We're creating our Wonderverse... If you're truly able to give these type of tool sets to the everyday person, I mean, you know, the interconnected worlds that are going to happen... I think this is where things are really going to change." - Boris Basilis (00:12:06)
- "Never quit, that's for sure. You know, I think a lot of people, as you're building, and as you're an entrepreneur, sometimes things look somewhat dark..." - Boris Basilis (00:45:34)
For the full transcript, see further below.
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About Our Guest:
- Bio: Boris Basilis is the visionary founder of Wander, a pioneering company at the forefront of blockchain gaming. With a career that spans technology, gaming, music, fashion, and television, Boris has been disrupting traditional models since 2009 with his viral game "Wall Street Massacre, Murder Madoff."
- Website: WNDR
- Twitter: @WndrSuperApp
- LinkedIn: Borris Bazelais
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Full Episode Transcript:
Swell AI Transcript: WNDR with Borris AUdio.mp3
Borris Bazelais: Hi, this is Boris Basilis, visionary founder of WNDR, your gateway to the future of blockchain gaming. You tuned in to the Edge of NFT, your gateway to being in the know of the future of interactive entertainment. Keep listening.
Richard Carthon: Hey Web3 Curious listeners, stay tuned for today's episode to learn blockchain gaming's billion-dollar boom, what wild innovations are about to explode onto your screens.
Josh Kriger: And Wander's big adventures. What are the jaw-dropping epiphanies and milestones for this company over the last six months?
Richard Carthon: And finally, peek behind the curtain. The most recent purchase of today's guests is loud and fast, just like him.
Josh Kriger: All this and more at the edge of Wander. Cue the intro.
Intro: Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast that brings you the top 1% of Web3 today and what will stand the test of time. We explore the nuts and bolts of the business side and also the human element of how Web3 is changing the way we interact with the things we love. This podcast is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers who are pumped about this ecosystem and driving where it goes next.
Richard Carthon: Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast created by Jeff Kelly, Ethan Ginni, and Josh
Krieger, featuring a variety of top-notch guests and other hosts like myself, Richard Carthon.
Josh Kriger: It's another production of Edge of Company, a quickly growing media ecosystem empowering the pioneers of Web3 tech and culture, and responsible for other groundbreaking endeavors like the Outer Edge Innovation Festival in LA and Riyadh.
Richard Carthon: Today's episode is sponsored as part of a media partnership and features Boris Bazlay, the visionary founder of Wander, who started disrupting traditional models in 2009 with the viral game Wall Street Massacre, Murder, Madoff. And now with a career spanning technology, gaming, music, fashion, and television, he leverages 3D web technology at Wander to deliver AAA quality immersive gaming experiences directly through your browser, accessible from any device, anywhere.
Josh Kriger: Wander is revolutionizing gaming with its groundbreaking streaming technology, making high-quality console-level games instantly accessible in your browser without downloads, transforming any device, phone, computer, or smart TV into a portal for exceptional gaming adventures and seamless social entertainment ecosystem, bridging the gap between the 200 million gamers and 5 billion internet users, and ensuring that everyone plays by creatively captivating universes and characters. Welcome, Boris. Great to have you on Edge of NFT.
Borris Bazelais: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here and great to see you guys again.
Richard Carthon: Absolutely. It was a pleasure to have you at our first Outer Edge Riyadh. And, you know, to have you be a part of that, be able to present on stage and just be part of this amazing transition of Web3 entering over into Web3 and being embraced over at Riyadh was really special. So we definitely appreciate WNDR being over there with us.
Borris Bazelais: You know, of course, it was really a remarkable experience. Riyadh is totally a different animal. You guys did such a great job, amazing people, top level Web3 people, man. And, you know, it was very rich. So thank you again for hosting that. Yeah, brought a lot of value to us and we're still raking it in as we speak. Thank you.
Richard Carthon: We definitely love to hear that. And I know you've been busy. I know you've been going to all kinds of conferences. And one of the most recent ones that you just came from was ECC in Brussels. Just curious, like what kind of unexpected innovations or discussions that you have while at that conference? And what do you think is going to disrupt the gaming industry the most in, let's say, the next five years?
Borris Bazelais: Sure, of course. I think I'm seeing a lot of people that are working in gaming or focused, you know, and working in Unreal Engine, even browser-based experiences. I've spoken to quite a few artists. I mean, we were at the Solana party there, and it was truly amazing what these guys were doing. And it was like, you know, live art, live tech right in front of your face. and they were using AI transforming people in real life right on the screen. And yeah, I just think people are truly innovative at this point. They're seeing Web3 in gaming, not just in the virtual world, but in the real world. I have met a lot of people that are really focused on browser-based types of experiences, which I think is really what's gonna lead Web3 for everybody to actually consume these types of games. So I'm excited about it. I think the onboarding process, people are really on the same page as we are. They understand, you know, creating wallets, making it simple for your everyday person, grandma approved type of experiences that if your grandma could access your project, you're winning. And I think people are understanding that. So, you know, with that type of tone, you know, moving, you know, towards the end of the year, I think things are really going to shift. And, you know, I met a lot of people in gaming, man, a lot of these companies, and I just love their energy. And you know, we're talking about the same game. So everyone's understanding what it takes really to, you know, break these games out into the world.
Josh Kriger: That's cool. Um, really dig what you're saying this weekend. I discovered, you know, Netflix has live games you can play, uh, where you sort of scan a QR code in your, uh, phone becomes a controller and there were only like five games available, but it was very, very clear, like their video content. They were very intentional in terms of hitting a wide swath of different demographics from interest and ages. And I thought about it. I was like, this is what blockchain gaming should be all about.
Borris Bazelais: You're absolutely right. And you nailed it because, you know, we are also using our virtual controller. We feel that the phone. is really a central device. And if you could connect that to, you know, smart TV or a PC or even another type of internet connected device, you could play easily. And that's the whole point, right? Making what's available and what everyone has to try to scale these types of experiences. So as I was saying earlier, people are actually seeing this. I saw this technology maybe eight years ago in some advertising And I said, wow, this is something we need to get on. And, uh, yeah, we've, uh, integrated it into our system. Uh, today we had a, um, you know, e-sports, uh, uh, platform that we're partnering with to test the game. He tested live and, you know, as soon as he started using the virtual controller, he was like, wow, this is amazing. I've never experienced this instantaneous, you know, And it's like magic, really, in a way. And when you experience it, it's like… I have that feeling.
Josh Kriger: You know, I haven't tried your virtual controller. I imagine it's very similar to the experience, or if not better, you know, give you the benefit of the doubt there. But yeah, I was like, wow, my phone just developed a new superpower. It can shoot all these crazy videos, and now I can play video games. And who needs more hardware, right? Who needs more clutter in their life? So I totally dig it. And you sort of alluded to this, but let's elaborate on the conversation around you know, this recent investment in blockchain gaming hit $1 billion in April. I think that's referring to this year, because it's been billions of dollars in investment thus far. What's one revolutionary concept you anticipate will dominate over the next decade? Where do you see all this going?
Borris Bazelais: I mean, I think for me, the way that I look at it is premium quality games for everyone, right? And when I say that, like, You know, I used to watch my friends, you know, play on their Xbox and PlayStation. I started with Nintendo way back in the day, but, you know, seeing that kind of quality, and to me, I think being able to get that quality on any device instantly is really the key. I mean, you know, you're dealing with Unreal Engine, you're dealing with GPUs, powering, you know, the visuals, and those same GPUs are used for AI. The combination of these two, when you're able to play a game and have the camera capture your emotions, figure out a little bit more about you. And as a player, I think it's quite amazing. I mean, so, you know, with that said, you know, I think this is why browser-based gaming for me is key. And the delivery of that, you know, a lot of people in gaming, and I think in Web3 gaming, you know, they definitely talk about AAA-type games. And I see a lot of them, you know, retargeting the heart for gamers, right? So, you know, for me, I always do tests. A few years ago, I wrote a Medium article, Xbox and PlayStation will go extinct. And it was about cloud gaming. And instantaneously within seconds, we're getting so much hate from hardcore gamers. And I realized that this was not for them because they love their hardware. They love their PlayStation. They love their PCs. I got one. That's what I'm talking to you guys with right now. It's beautiful. But at the end of the day, I think that a lot of people never had the experience of, you know, truly, you know, high quality, premium quality games. And if you could touch that and click, within a second, and the experience that you have in using your virtual controller into truly an immersive, fast-paced, hyper-real game, it really changes what you think is capable on the internet. So that's really what I'm excited about. And as we were saying, there's 5.1 billion people online, and I feel that everybody should have access to high-quality games and play with people all around the world. And yeah, I believe that's the future.
Richard Carthon: I agree with you on several points. One, I am definitely a console person myself. I also played Nintendo all the way up to that point. I'm a hardcore PlayStation guy myself. I've had every PlayStation hardware device ever created. And just going to your point on making streaming just accessible and having the high definition games available to these people. There's some a couple years ago, someone threw out the stat of like, most people are never going to own a personal computer, but everyone's going to have a phone. And at that point, that's going to be a lot of people's personal computers. And then when you think about games, in the same fashion, where a lot of people if they're not going to go buy a computer, they're probably not going to go by a hardware device, but they're going to have their phone. And if you can start getting the same type of quality from AAA games, from Unreal Engine 5 and everything else on your phone, you're immediately tapping into that 5.1 that you just talked about. And I think your aim and focus in that area is very smart, and the technology is catching up. It's starting to catch up. A lot of this was very forward-thinking, but now with everything, with AI and everything else catching up, it's all succinctly coming together. That's why I want to fast-forward five years. What kind of mind-blowing metaverse experience do you envision for gamers to be able to experience, and how is Wonder positioning itself to make that reality?
Borris Bazelais: Well, one of the things is, you know, as you said, you know, your mobile phone is almost like your remote control. So, you know, aside from just, you know, mobile gaming you know, you could walk in front of a smart TV, click and start to play. It could be down in Times Square and all of a sudden you're connecting to a huge billboard and you have multiple people playing at the same time, trying to get a royalty from a brand. You know, we also say that, you know, Wonder is like the Twitch, and TikTok of gaming. And the reason why we say that is it's pretty easy to create a video and put it on TikTok. And we're working. And we're in R&D right now to really create tools that people will be able to speak these metaverses and games into existence within minutes. And I think that that is where we're really going to be going. We created the streaming technology. One, I'm a creator. We're creating our Wonderverse. We have the Coliseum. We have Supercharged. I feel that everybody, and I've said this at your conference, everybody's a Picasso, everybody's a Steven Spielberg, just waiting to get their creativity out. And if you're truly able to give these types of tool sets to the everyday person you know, the interconnected worlds that are going to happen and, you know, your everyday person truly, you know, putting things that are in their mind for others to experience. I think this is where things are really going to change. And it's mind blowing. I mean, you know, I'm just seeing where we're at right now. and playing with some of these tools and seeing where we will be in the next five years. It's really an exciting time. And, you know, again, you know, blockchain and Web3 was something I'm a Web2 guy. And it really took me a while to get sold on it and kind of figuring out how it powers us and the platform and everybody else. That to me is interesting. So, yeah, the future looks amazing. And I'm excited. I'm really excited to be in this space. I mean, little that I know, I'd be in an arena where it is the biggest arena in the world. I mean, there's so much room for everyone, you know, and a lot of creators. And that's what I feel. People always say, hey, who's your competition? I'm like, dude, you know, it's not about competition. You know, it's about everybody in the space really pushing their product forward and trying for all of us to interlink and Yeah. Yeah. I mean, later on, you know what I mean?
Josh Kriger: Like, like, come on, like Mario Brothers first Tetris for Zelda. There's no competition. They're different. They're different games. They're different experiences. Right? Like There's just so much more to the possibilities. It's like when I think it was like Ragu and Hunts were competing and Hunts realized that the key to that was, you know, 50 different sauces instead of like one sauce, you know, regular meat or no meat, right? Like the reality is that consumers have very diverse tastes and there's unlimited IP potential. So I'm with you right there, man. Let's talk a little bit about Wander's recent progress in terms of user acquisition, the platform development. I know you guys have really been making investments in this area. Obviously, a lot of agility and dedication is required given the dynamic nature of Web3. How's that been going for you?
Borris Bazelais: It's been going well. I think that what I first saw a few years ago, we're still on track. And that to me is pretty amazing, right? I think one is, you know, creating, I think the streaming solution was probably the hardest thing that we've done. You know, being able to get these games out, high quality and, you know, low latency and making sure they work across every freaking device there is. And, you know, virtual controller, gamepad That, to me, I think was the tough part. Honestly, I think making games is probably the easiest thing. It kind of flows. It's creation. It's storytelling. So I'm glad that we got that part out of the way. The Web3 side, I think that, you know, when the bear market happened is really when I was really able to dig in and really see what the problems were, why games weren't scaling, And, you know, again, I'm a Web2 guy and I did not want to do 10 steps to set up a wallet, you know, and security and just a lot of these things. So I said, we have to create and design a way for people to get their own wallet within a second. You know, you put your email in, you log on, you have access, and all of a sudden you have a wallet you could use, you know, your credit card or debit card, you could buy and trade. I think that's the first thing. And a lot of the Web3 talk and Web3 infrastructure you know, just like when the internet first, you know, started coming out, you don't need to talk about that, right? It's an experience. You're all of a sudden you're able to buy and trade collectibles and, you know, these collectibles could go up in value, you know, from one day to the next. And I think it's this type of discovery with new web 2 users and making this simple. So once they get onboarded, you know, they're able to learn pretty quickly on how this works. And I think that's an important thing, you know, making that experience easy for, you know, a grandma, And you could get on, you could play, you could buy a collectible, and next thing you know, it could go up in value, you could resell it. And even for creators, you're right, even creating products and putting it on our platform. I mean, there are so many traditional artists, digital artists, and now with the ability to create digital art and put that onto the platform where people could use that in game, have that utility, I think it's gonna open a huge market moving forward.
Richard Carthon: Hey, I agree with that. And you've said a lot of things in that last segment that I want to go back and kind of unpack a little bit. One of them being the ability to pivot and to create creativity to blossom. And earlier in the show, you said that you believe everyone is a Picasso and has the ability to be creative, but then necessarily have the tools to show that creativity and to be part of an experience that allows them to flow and have all of that come to the forefront. The way that Wonder is going about with creating its gaming is allowing a larger audience to be able to do that, and mostly being able to do that from a phone through streaming and through having high-quality console-level type games through their phone. So I want to spend a little bit more time on that, just driving that home a little bit more, because there's a lot of people in our audience who aren't necessarily your everyday gamer, but they definitely play a game here or there once or twice on their phone. And maybe you're hearing this like, oh, it'd be great to be able to play a super high quality console level game on my phone. So if you had to explain wonders like Streaming Engine to someone who is hearing this for the first time or is a hardcore gamer and wants to be able to play some of the different titles that you have, how do you explain that to them?
Borris Bazelais: Sure. Here's a link and, you know, just click this link on your PC, connect your gamepad or your virtual phone, and you have a high-end experience. I mean, that really is all that it is. And I think that's the first step of just accessible, you know, premium games. I think that, you know, where we are with gaming, you know, gaming has changed in the way that you create games, so creating different experiences, like you could actually create them a lot faster than you could years ago with a smaller team. And that is really what I'm excited about. One of my biggest studies is my son, Mason. He's 15. He's a gamer. He plays every freaking racing game, Spider-Man. And, you know, at the end, I'm just going to revert back to creators and where development in gaming is right now. It's like, you know, the days of creating games for a year or two years are over. I mean, you know, the amount of money that was being spent and just wasted away I think has definitely is what changed the gaming industry as we've seen it. So now you have the capability of taking a small team of four or five people, creating for a month or two and getting the product out. And I think that is an amazing way. It's just like a TV series. That's how I learned. You create your pilot and then you do episode one, episode two, and you keep on building upon that. And in that way, I think there's a lot of room for new creators to come in and build. But I think that it's pretty simple, man. For an everyday consumer, the thing is you just show them a visual and you share them a link. Once they open it up on their PC, it really is magical because they're not expecting to see what you're seeing, right? So with that, it's just access to premium games. And that's what I really, you know, push with Wonder. That was always the original plan. And I think that, you know, the future for us with our games, like Coliseum, Supercharged, we have another three games. that are in development. But the key is that, you know, I look at certain game mechanics and game loops that are familiar to a casual game, right? Like the Coliseum, it's like Pac-Man meets Endless Runner, right? It's turn and tap, turn and tap, right? Jump. And using these types of simple controls that are familiar to people, with high-end graphics makes the onboarding, I believe, a bit easier. So, you know, when we were in Brussels, we had the opportunity for the first time to allow users to test our game. And I have to tell you, I'm going to have some videos coming up soon on this. People were just having such an amazing time. They couldn't believe how things were looking. It was like, this is AAA gaming. This is like the best quality that I've seen. And, you know, having that said, I was like, wow, I think we've really done our job. Seeing that for the first time, because we've been in stealth for so long, my VP, Jeff St. Louis, which you guys know, took me out of the lab and said, Boris, stop freaking building. We have enough. Let's get the product out. And I'm glad I listened to him. And I'm glad I did because, yeah, just seeing that type of experience in the hands of the everyday person, they're jumping for joy for real. And it was pretty impressive.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, that's so gratifying and congrats. I mean, you build something and, and, you know, if you build it, they will come as the hope is similar to Authorize Riyadh, right? We put a lot of time and energy into that. And then to see people there having an amazing time building bridges, making new friends, there's nothing that beats seeing your product come to life. So, um, Congrats on what you achieved there. And wanted to talk a little bit more about the art side. You talked about sort of artists in the space and, you know, creator first is definitely part of the Web3 philosophy. Not everyone sort of adheres to that or sort of remembers how important creators are to the world, but we certainly do. a unique part of the economy of Winder is these 3D collectibles. I'm curious, how do you see that evolving, and what opportunity does that create for gamers and creators?
Borris Bazelais: Of course. Well, again, like I said, I'm a creator myself. I was an artist. I did murals back in the day. I was a set designer. I built props. So I think like a creator, and I tried to open up the doors for people who like to create and being able to find these tools for the first time and being able to translate these ideas into 3D, I think is something that was pretty mind-blowing for me. And, you know, there are designers, I really love fashion, you know, there are a lot of major fashion brands that are getting into Web3, getting into these immersive, you know, types of experiences and there are up-and-comers also. That is fascinating. And this is a way for them, you know, to use these tool sets to create their fashion line for avatars, right? Give these avatars certain powers. I mean, if you just look at ArtStation and a few other platforms, man, you will be amazed by what's out there. But if you're able to give them a platform where these, you know, items could be used in multiple games where people could buy and sell this, this is truly going to create another type of economy in the virtual world. But at the same time, I also see a possible way of driving, you know, sales or revenues, as you would say, to the real world, right? So say that you have a fashion designer and they're creating a line for your avatars. They also have a line, you know, a fashion line in real life. And if you're able to collect and pick up 3D, you know, say 20 NFTs or collect a certain amount of coins, You could get 30, 40% off of their fashion line and order it, you know, right online. And I think that there is really a fusion that I feel is necessary, right? Going from virtual to real. So I think that now people that are traditional designers or artists who actually have work in the real world and can create in the virtual world have an opportunity to play with both. And that to me is pretty exciting. And, and, you know, coming from television, I always thought about, as I thought about, Hey, how can the legacy brands get involved? How can I get a Nike or an Adidas and have them drop their NFTs, right? And allow players to collect. And, you know, again, it's not just about the player, but the whole community aspect is allowing spectators to interact. So if I have a group of a hundred people while I'm going around collecting Nike or Adidas sneakers, and I actually win and they can make a click on a button. and blow my enemy up or supercharge me to the finish line, if I win, I'm not the only one who shares in the royalty, the whole community backing me does. And I think a community-based royalty and interaction where spectators get involved, it allows a much more robust platform where you have users, you have gamers, you have spectators, you have brands in one ecosystem and everybody is like helping one another out. And that to me, I think is a beautiful thing.
Richard Carthon: I agree. Creating that ecosystem that's all-encompassing and connects people, allows people to be creative, allows people to have fun, and allows people to potentially have monetary opportunities is something that I think gamers are really being gravitated towards. And I know, in a lot of ways, WNDR is putting some things together to help that circular economy exist. And so I want to quickly spend some time on talking about that, especially around how you talk about the community royalties, and to do stuff like that, and to onboard people that are either already in Web 3 or coming into Web 3, having versatile payment options, helps and can be a big draw for new users. So how is WNDR incorporating both traditional and futuristic payments? And how has the WNDR wallet been received so far by the community?
Borris Bazelais: Yeah, good question. So right now we've, you know, this month is really when we started hitting our marketing. I think, you know, just with what we've done, we started, you know, with probably 500 followers on, you know, all our platforms. And after three weeks we have a solid like 11, 12k that are coming on right now we've pushed, we have about 600 wallets. And we haven't done our main push, we waited to do everything that we're doing this week out in Brussels. And you know, we're in Paris doing a few things. And now we're really going to be pushing that initiative to get wallets, you know, downloaded by users. But, you know, one of the great things that we have moving forward this month is some, you know, great partnerships. One that we're working with, with MiraclePlay out of Korea. They're an esports platform. They got close to 75,000 users. And, you know, another one with 140,000 users. So, you know, we're kind of, you know, doing these partnerships to get the games and the platforms in the hands of everyone, right? So I think, you know, with these pushes that we're doing in these coming weeks, I think we'll start, you know, seeing the wallet go, you know, in the thousands and the experiences and people being able to buy and trade certain, you know, collectibles that we're going to be releasing in the beginning. This is going to really be our test here, you know, for this month and next month. And I'm really excited about that. But, you know, I think that's really, you know, the key drive for these next few weeks and to get those wallets out and to get people to actually get on the platform and compete. and basically create an esports competition with the Coliseum at first.
Josh Kriger: Let's go. Let's go. That's awesome. So speaking of sort of creating the pipes, that's been a sort of theme for this show. Let's talk about your SDK. When we think about interoperability, giving folks, the game studios, the brands, the creators, a chance to publish games and experiences is pretty cool. And my understanding is you guys are doing this with a web link, is that correct? And how is that going so far as well? What are the sort of ambitions there?
Borris Bazelais: Yeah that's exactly what it is. At the end of the day, it's just a simple web link, right? You know, again, you know, just to backtrack to show you my this moment here was, you know, when we did create Wall Street Massacre Murder Madoff, it was a game done in flash. I had never done a game before. And we had another media property called CrimeCV.com. I wanted to turn into the Netflix of crime entertainment, but it's expensive. TV and film is, you know, it's a lot. And with a very small budget, we were able to create a game in a month. And I basically kind of tapped into what was in pop culture at the moment. And it was Bernie Madoff. And I just wanted an everyday person to get their revenge. And it worked. We got close to 23 million game plays in over three months. And I was shocked by how users accessed the game on a PC. And that always stuck with me that year. Everything started going to mobile phones. That's when iOS really came out with their gaming platform. So that streaming tech, seeing that happen way back then, I said, this is the future and I need to figure out how we're going to do this. And it's not until years later, I was in LA and I started working in Unreal Engine. And I said, this is what needs to get into the hands of people. So that is what clicked. And just, you know, it was like lightning, man. And I said, this is it. This is what I got to focus on. And out of nowhere, this is where wonder is right now. So streaming tech with one simple web link people that, you know, and this is what I like about it. Right. I think a lot of the web three, you know, infrastructure that we have is really seamless. So, you know, the SDK where we're finishing up some things, I think in the next month, we're going to release the first version. And it excites me because I think it's like. You know, there are a lot of games out there, right, that you could build upon their games, which I think is fine. But, you know, I'm a firm believer like myself, I like IP. And I know a lot of people love their IP. And I think that's the key, that's the value. So I want to give, you know, creators the ability, game developers or brands to create their own IPs, right? I feel that people should stop looking at games more as a marketing tool, but as a revenue stream, and being able to basically have our SDK you can use Unreal Engine, you could use Unity or any gaming engine out there, you know, you could plug right in and you could seamlessly just stream to the world within seconds, right? And it makes discovery a lot easier, I believe. And, you know, with that, I think, you know, people working on gaming engines, that gives them an opportunity, right? And being able to have a wallet that comes up, hey, you could use the Wonder Wallet, but if you feel like you're a hardcore Web3 guy, you want to go into, you know, a hardware wallet, That's fine too. You could transfer it over. I did this specifically for the everyday person so they don't have to think about that. And if they want to transition to their own wallet at some point, they can. And just making these things very simple, I think is key for a user and also for game developers to have these tool sets. And we're a multi-chain. I mean, you know, we have a backend that connects us to just about every blockchain there is. And this is something that we started, we actually figured out in the past month. In the next two and a half weeks we're going to be on multiple blockchains. And I think that is a very important factor. You know, there are a lot of blockchains. I think a lot of them are doing amazing. And, you know, why stick with just one, but be with multiple. And there are creators developing everywhere. We just want to touch as many people and give these types of people the opportunity to get their products out to the world.
Richard Carthon: Right. Yeah, that's incredible. And I think having that flexibility to be able to multi-chain, cross-chain and meet users where they are, especially whether in Web3 or not, because at the end of day, most people not in Web3 care less about what's underneath. Right. Like when we play games on iPhone, we don't say, was this built on Swift or blah, blah, blah. We just want to play a good game. And so I feel like that's going to continue to translate as we keep building in this space. But having been in this space and seeing everything that is going on, I have a final question for you before we learn a little bit more about you and our quick hitters. When you look out across the landscape, what are some other projects or some other games that you've observed that are doing something pretty special in the space that you think people should be paying attention to?
Borris Bazelais: Yeah, that's a good question. I've met quite a few game studios out in Brussels, You know, there's some that are doing some amazing racing games. I like how, you know, and honestly, I can't remember every sinking, every name because I met quite a few, but shout out because I, whoever listens to this, you know, I talked to everybody and I interview everybody too. So, and that's the thing, right? I feel that there are so many incredible people doing incredible things. And I think that we all speak the same language. So even when I was at, you know, the outer edge, I found it amazing. I mean, you know, you guys had, you know, had Robbie Young from Anamodica Brands. I had an interview with him. We haven't released it yet and being able to speak with him and his thoughts. And, you know, there was Motiverse that was there. I think Motiverse is doing something pretty amazing with, you know, what they got going on. You know, there are quite a few people doing some good things. I can't, I promise you, I can't think of, you know, names right now, but I just love the fact that people are pushing great products. Because a few years ago, what I saw was coming out in the market, people were promising things that I had a feeling were not possible. But there's some real builders in space now. They're really thinking about quality games. They're really thinking about community. They want to have multiplayer. And to me, I think that's exciting. We're all in the same game, talking the same thing. Some of us have different routes, but are very similar. And there is that silver lining of just getting beautiful games to everyone. So again, I'm sorry, I can't think of all the names. All good.
Josh Kriger: All good. Shout out to all the folks building beautiful games. Yes. That's a great sort of segue to get to know you better on our next segment, Edge Quick Hitters.
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Josh Kriger: All right, Boris, Edge Quick Editors are a fun and quick way to get to know you a little bit better. There are 10 questions. We're looking for just a short single or few word response, but feel free to expand if you get the urge. Are you up for it? Let's do it. All right. What is the first thing you remember ever purchasing in your life?
Borris Bazelais: A Gemini mixer, two Technic turntables, Houdini's Friends record. Afrika Bambaataa and Michael Jackson's Thriller. That was the first purchase that I ever made. And I want to be a DJ. I must have been, and I'm going to give my age away, probably like 10, 11 years old at the time. And yeah, I found music fascinating and just being able to manipulate music with a mixer. And yeah, I DJed some of my own parties while my Family was away. I definitely did get into some trouble, but then we packed the house, so it allowed me to be an entrepreneur and learn how an entrepreneur should think. So yeah, those were the first purchases.
Josh Kriger: You were a bundle shopper before Amazon was around. I do all sorts of random bundles now on Amazon where I'm like, oh, I need this under the bed organizer and some creatine. So your approach is a little bit more cohesive than mine. What is the first thing you ever remember selling in your life?
Borris Bazelais: Fireworks, fireworks. I ordered fireworks here and I was able to order some really awesome firecrackers, MADs, bottle rockets, and my bottom and sold them to friends at school, which I shouldn't have done, but I made some money. And yeah, I love that. I love that. I was like, wow, you know, nobody has access to it. I found a place somewhere in upstate Florida that nobody knew about. I was going through magazines and I did my thing. It worked out.
Josh Kriger: All right. Hopefully no one's fingers got blown off because of no early. You know, I'll say one quick thing there. I was just in Canada for Canada Day, and they are not nearly as into individual fireworks and celebrations. I mean, there are some fireworks for Canada Day on the first, but it's no Fourth of July like Boston where I'm from. So definitely a U.S. specific sort of thing. I'm sure there's other countries where fireworks are super popular, too, but not in Canada.
Borris Bazelais: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you have those bottle rockets that are the whistlers. And if you break the sticks off, and just light them up. You don't know where they're going to go, but they're amazing. So, you know, those types of things were fun. But in any case, let me stop there. All good.
Richard Carthon: Entrepreneurial spirit for a very long time. And fireworks are fun ones. I don't think we've heard that on the show before. So that's a unique one. What is the most recent thing that you have purchased?
Borris Bazelais: When I came back down from New York, I was there for about 15 years and I Always loved cars and muscle cars. And when I came here in 2022, I purchased a Mustang 5.0 and it's boosted, it's track ready. It's loud as hell and I love it. And that is the last thing that I really purchased, you know, aside from clothes, but that, that's, that's what I rock right now. My son loves it. And, uh, you know, we're always writing. I'm always in my car talking business and, uh, it feels good, you know, it This type of car, you feel its energy, you feel its movement, you know, it's loud, it's fast, a little bit like, you know, me. And it matches, you know, my character and my son's character. So yeah, that was the last purchase. And yeah, I'm loving it, man. It's a great car to have here in Miami. And, you know, we're always driving, seeing beautiful cars. It starts conversations on the road. We have guys on Lambos pulling up next to us, you know, everything. And yeah. It's been a lot of fun. So that's my last purchase. And I'm happy with that. Every other car that I've had has been, you know, regular, you know, Beamer or a nice little Mercedes, something clean, you know, but yeah, I went loud. Yeah.
Richard Carthon: And I mean, it's, it's awesome when you, you work really hard and you have something that
you've been looking forward to and you get something like that. I, I too, I'm a car person and love cars and that Mustang, like you said, it, it, it yells that just per it yells, man. And. It grabs attention and it's a very great car from Miami as well. So it can be understood.
Borris Bazelais: And you know, we're doing Supercharged, our racing game too, you know, so I'm a car guy and, you know, that actually inspired me to actually create the game actually, right? Modding up the game, modding up the car, you know, the suspension, the tires, the wheels, that's what we do in the game. And once I saw that, I said, wow, I understand now. I jump into things when I figure that out. And once I understood the power of creating your own vehicle, and that to me, I was like, OK, I get why people love racing games. And we started designing our own cars. And that's all she wrote. So I went to another place in this world.
Richard Carthon: No, for sure. Just one final antidote. I used to love the game, all the Midnight Club dub additions and all the others like Need for Speed and everything else, like you said, customizing cars. And when I finally got to a point where I could do that for my own car, I did it. So I completely agree with what you just said. But on the flip side, what is one of the most recent things that you have sold?
Borris Bazelais: Recent things that I have sold, well, I don't think I've really sold anything lately, I guess. You know, not really anything. I've, you know, been pretty good. Most of my selling was a few years ago, some crypto that I've been holding. But yeah, nothing, nothing to really talk about right now. No. Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
Josh Kriger: There you go. All right. So next question, what is your most prized possession?
Borris Bazelais: My son, Mason, I don't want to say he's my possession, but definitely he is, you know, what drives me, helps me with my vision. He is my right hand, son and best friend. I think that that is, you know, why I do everything at Wonder. He keeps me young, he keeps me balanced. And yeah, I'm proud of that, man. Like that little dude right there is like, big guy right now for 14. And, uh, yeah, we just rock it. And, uh, you know, he helps keep me in a steady line and I take them around the world with what we do and we're having the most amazing time. And I would say, yeah, that's, uh, one of my proudest things. Yeah. The proudest thing that I have right now in my life, I would say, aside from my business and God, of course, that that's what I look at, man.
Josh Kriger: That's awesome, man. It's great that you and your son, um, have that opportunity. It's like LeBron's son playing on the Lakers, right? There's not a better opportunity than to sort of have that sort of experience, show that sort of passion for something that you've been passionate about your whole life. So congrats on being able to align the stars in that way. No, I guess it happens, right? He could have had other interests, but in this case, it worked out.
Borris Bazelais: At the end, really quick, he might have other interests, but for now, we're rocking it, right? And that's the thing, like, you know, you love making games, or you love storytelling, or you just like talking about it, you know how to sell, things like that, I think are very important. But any direction, any pivot, I'll be open to. That's really what it's all about, right? It's just about the passion, making sure that you're able to get their passion and let them do what they can. That's the key.
Josh Kriger: And put it on the table. So if you could buy anything in the world, digital, physical service or experience that's currently for sale, what would it be?
Borris Bazelais: Probably a telecom company. Yeah, a telecom company, you know, having access to, you know, millions of homes and, you know, cable channels, I think that there is such a next level that could happen in telecom and with the technology, with AI, with metaverses, and really being able to connect that correctly, at least the way that I envision it, definitely a telecom company. That's what I would be looking at next.
Josh Kriger: All right, that's another first on Edge of NRT. No one has wanted to buy a telecom company. But when you frame it that way, I see how that could be a lot of fun and provide a whole lot of potential.
Borris Bazelais: Yes, yes, it does. I mean, you know, you have TV networks, you know, you have access to movies, pop stars, you know, it's a lot of influence. And I think that there's a lot of good that could be done with that. And there are a lot of people in this world that don't have access to information or premium content and are able to figure these things out too for them. I think that's important, right? So I think along those lines, really.
Richard Carthon: Yeah, that's awesome. Lots of power in that. So if you could pass on one of your personality traits to the next generation, what would it be?
Borris Bazelais: Never quit, that's for sure. You know, I think a lot of people, as you're building, and as you're an entrepreneur, sometimes things look somewhat dark, right? And it is that process that we have to trust. And my son, although I know where we're going, he's always telling me, Dad, you remember, trust the process. You're always telling me to trust the process. And it's true, because at the end, sometimes you don't see the end and how things work. But if you really are clear, you have your radar on, and you're able to connect those dots, you know, that patience is key. Because as you're painting, man, those lines are going to connect. You're going to have that depth. It's going to go really deep. And it's going to happen. And I've just seen things out of nowhere just happen magically. And I think that from these experiences and other things that I've done in my life, I've seen the results. And at times, we forget these things. And we forget how these great things that have happened to us have connected. Because a lot of the times where you know, in the situation and not of the situation. And we need to take a step back, but always push forward because when you connect those freaking dots, dude, they're going to connect. The right people are going to come to you and you'll know it. Just feel your gut. I mean, that's my thing. You'll know it. So that's my two cents.
Richard Carthon: Yeah. That's really powerful, and I'm sure you're imparting that to your son, and it sounds like he's already reflecting it back to you, which is powerful. Now, if you could eliminate one of your personality traits from the next generation, what would that be?
Borris Bazelais: As patient as I want to be, my impatience. I think that's, you know, I think that's key. But I think when you put yourself in situations in life, right, I think taking away that level of need, I think is really important because when you need things, you start making the wrong decisions, right? And I think that, you know, just going towards a goal, right, or an outcome, and just knowing that it's going to happen, I think is really the key, kind of shifts your, you know, your perspective on it, how you encounter it, how you interact with that thing. And, you know, a bit of detachment is always good just to allow things to work out. You need to start nailing something in, but then you gotta step back and, you know, let it do its thing. You know, you put the seed in, you water it. You know, you can't be putting vitamins in it every day. You'll kill it. Just hold back and just let it do its thing. And then when it needs to be, you know, watered again, then you start singing, you water it again. And I think that's really the key. And, you know, just being patient because if, you know, If you believe in something and you really connect the dots and you're clear-minded, you're going to make it happen.
Richard Carthon: Yeah, absolutely. Patience is key. I think we all can get a little impatient from time to time, depending on what life throws at us, but it's definitely something to keep in mind. So I definitely appreciate that.
Borris Bazelais: Though, you know, although we do have patience, when things move, they move very fast, right? And when something is supposed to happen. Just wait for those moments, because as fast as you want things to happen at that moment, you'll be surprised by how quick something could happen. So that's it.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, definitely. Cool. Appreciate that. So what did you do just before joining us on the podcast?
Borris Bazelais: Running around today, just getting myself organized for the week. We've been away. and just going with my son, doing our dailies, talking on the phone with my VP, making sure that, you know, our game is in order, dropping laundry off, you know, just doing, you know, just the daily stuff. That was my thing today, that's the truth. I enjoy those moments, right?
Josh Kriger: Yeah, back to home base, get situated, and What are you going to do after the podcast? A little bit more of the same or something else a little more spicy?
Borris Bazelais: Yeah, well, after this, I think I'm probably going to go ahead and do a workout at the park. It's four days overdue. And then just come back here and just start prepping for my meetings with my team for tomorrow. And yeah, I'm just just prepping for these next steps. And I'm just so excited about what I'm doing that you know, whatever it is that I'm doing, man, if I got to clean the floor, if I'm doing this, I know what I, what I have in mind and what we're doing. And it just makes everything special right now, dude, like for real, I could be sitting in the worst place and I'm feeling good because I know what we're doing. So, um, Yeah, just doing what we got to do to get us to the next level. And that's exciting.
Richard Carthon: It is exciting. You're getting to work on what you're passionate about. And you're getting to trust your own process and be present. So super powerful. We always like to wrap up with a fun question, a fun bonus question. And you are particularly fond of two things I'm particularly fond about, which are games and cars. So I want to ask you, what is your favorite game of all time? And what is your favorite car of all time?
Borris Bazelais: Favorite game of all time? Well, you know, one I do like is Spider-Man. I just like the way he moves, you know, and just flips. Those physics are just really amazing. And, you know, I think we all want to be superheroes at some point. And I have dreams of me flying around and moving like that. That definitely is one. And your other question, there was a two-part question. Your car, favorite car. Favorite car Wow so I have to say I do love What I have right now. She's special, but I think a Lambo or They're probably there are a few cars that I really like, but if I were to touch one, I would probably say a Ferrari Supersport, it's classic. It's long. It's beautiful. It's yeah, that one I do like a lot, you know, there's a lot of loud ones out there, but that one is fire. It's long, huge tires, and great control. I think I might rock that one. You know, things will go well next year. And for my team, dude.
Josh Kriger: They deserve it. There's a goal there. Well, this has been a ton of fun. So grateful to have you on the show. Your passion for what you're doing emanates through your veins. And hopefully our listeners that are hearing this show feel your passion. Obviously, for our video watchers on YouTube and Mico, DeafLink comes out as well. All right, well, we have a nice fun segment before we wrap here, Boris. It's called Shout Out, where we give you a chance to give someone in your ecosystem that isn't on the show today, but is doing a lot to make things happen, some love. So who comes to mind?
Borris Bazelais: So Josh Poe, first, he is an investor and partner I've been working with for 15 years, and now he's a VC. And he's put up to a million dollars in our project. This guy is a writer guy, dude. And I tell you, without him, I don't think I'd be where I am today. 15 years is a long time to work with somebody. So much love there, Josh. Love you, man. Jeff St. Louis met him two years ago. An amazing, amazing addition to the team. Not only is an amazing CTO, he's also an engineer by trade. Technically, bro, this guy is just off the chain. He connects dots like no others. And thank you for being on board. And my boy, Mason, I love you very much. My son, you already know what's up. And yeah, these are my peeps. My mom, my sisters, you all know.
Josh Kriger: That's right. And, uh, yeah, I'll, I'll do you a solid here. Um, I didn't know there was a Josh and web three, that's not in Josh Dow. So, uh, I'm the co-founder of Josh Dow. So we're going to get Josh into the Dow. I'm going to work out the details with you offline, but, but Josh, if you're listening, man, you're going to want to be in Josh Dow. Every Josh and web three is in Josh Dow.
Borris Bazelais: I love that. I think you will too.
Josh Kriger: All right. Great.
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Josh Kriger: Where can listeners go to learn more about you and what you're working on at WNDR?
Borris Bazelais: Sure. You could go to WNDR, W-N-D-R dot com on our site. You could go to Twitter, WNDR, W-N-D-R super app, or Telegram, W-N-D-R super app also. And you can see, you know, the different contests that we have going on, you know, the next steps that we're doing, early access to the platform, Um, and, uh, yeah, just, uh, we're doing a ton of AMAs. We did an AMA the other day and, uh, it was amazing. We had close to like 50,000 people listening and I think it was nuts. And, um, I don't know how that happened, but yeah, you can find us there and yeah, you can pick through our, our, our information and definitely see what we're doing. Cause we could really get in depth with, uh, you know, a lot of the gaming, a lot of the streaming, the platform and what we got going on.
Josh Kriger: Cool. Well, folks should definitely sort of stay in touch and watch what you're up to. If they're passionate about the future of gaming, definitely taking a look at what you're doing at Wander makes a lot of sense. For now, we have reached the outer limit at the edge of NFT for today. Thanks for exploring with us. We've got space for more adventures on the Starships. Invite your friends, recruit some cool strangers. They'll make this journey much better. Hal, if you're listening, go to Spotify or iTunes right now. Rate us and say something awesome. If you're watching on YouTube, join over 130,000 other followers by hitting the subscribe button, passing this episode on to a friend or two. You can also now catch us on myco.io. That's M-Y-C-O dot I-O, where you can watch and earn your time and attention. Lastly, be sure to tune in next time for more great Web 3 content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us today.
Borris Bazelais: Thank you for having me.
Outro: The views and opinions expressed on Edge of NFT reflect solely those views and opinions of the show hosts and its guests. Please make sure to do your own research. Our show is not financial advice. You understand that you are using any and all information available on or through this podcast at your own risk. Whenever making financial decisions, we recommend doing your own research and talking to your accountant for financial advice. From time to time we may feature sponsored content on the show for which we receive value and we may share links for which we receive a commission if you make a purchase through one of those links. Refer to our website www.edgeofnft.com for our full disclaimer, terms and conditions, and privacy policy.
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