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Discover how Kevin He, cofounder of Bitlayer, is leading the charge in building a Bitcoin Layer 2 ecosystem. Delve into the technical intricacies of Bitcoin’s evolving landscape, the significance of Layer 2 solutions, and how Bitlayer is paving the way for faster, more secure Bitcoin transactions. Learn about Kevin's journey in blockchain, the challenges of creating scalable solutions, and the potential of Bitcoin Layer 2 to transform the crypto space.
This episode is Brought to you by Request Finance, Castmagic and Unstoppable Domains and sponsored by Bitlayer.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Bitlayer’s Vision for Bitcoin Layer 2: Kevin He discusses Bitlayer's mission to build a Bitcoin equivalent of Layer 2, enhancing Bitcoin's capabilities with faster transactions and improved security.
- The Challenges of Bitcoin Layer 2 Development: A deep dive into the technical hurdles and innovative solutions Bitlayer is implementing to make Bitcoin a more efficient settlement layer.
- Kevin He's Blockchain Journey: From reading the Bitcoin white paper in 2017 to leading multiple Layer 1 and Layer 2 projects, explore Kevin's path in the blockchain space.
- The Role of Taproot and Other Protocols in Bitcoin’s Future: Kevin explains the importance of the Taproot upgrade and other developments in shaping the future of Bitcoin.
- The Growing Bitcoin Ecosystem in Asia: Insights into how Asia, particularly Hong Kong and Singapore, are becoming hubs for Bitcoin development and innovation.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- Kevin He on Bitcoin’s Evolution: "Bitcoin Layer 2 isn’t just an upgrade; it’s a necessary evolution to ensure Bitcoin remains the premier digital currency." [Timestamp: 12:45]
- Importance of Taproot: "Without Taproot, there would be no Bitcoin Layer 2 as we envision it today. It’s a game-changer for the entire ecosystem." [Timestamp: 17:15]
- Building the Future: "Bitlayer is not just about faster transactions; it’s about laying the foundation for the next generation of Bitcoin applications." [Timestamp: 34:10]
For the full transcript, see further below.
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About Our Guest:
- Bio: Kevin He is the cofounder of Bitlayer, where he is pioneering the development of Bitcoin Layer 2 technology. With a deep technical background and a passion for blockchain innovation, Kevin has been instrumental in leading multiple projects that enhance blockchain scalability and security.
- Website: Bitlayer
- Twitter: @HendryNiall
- LinkedIn: Niall Hendry
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Full Episode Transcript:
Josh Kriger [00:00:00]:
Hi everyone. This is Josh Kriger, cohost of Edge of NFT. I am live at Bitcoin Asia. And this particular road show is powered by Bitlayer. And today, I'm very excited to have Kevin He, the cofounder of Bitlayer hanging out with me. And, we're having a good time in Hong Kong. Great to have you on the show, Kevin.
Kevin He [00:00:19]:
Nice to meet you. Nice. Say hi here. Kevin, the cofounder of Bitlayer. We are building a, Bitcoin equivalent of, layer 2 for Bitcoin.
Josh Kriger [00:00:31]:
Yeah. It it's exciting stuff and, you know, this is a part of an ongoing series we're doing with BitLiar to really unpack what's happening. We've talked to your co founder Charlie and of course you're you're definitely more technical. So we wanna dive into some of those details. But but first, AI, let's talk about the vibe in Hong Kong. Like, this is my first trip here. It's pretty exciting. Obviously Eathan food scene is world class but but what are you sort of picking up here?
Kevin He [00:00:58]:
Yeah. I love that NFT. Even though I didn't make make it to to, in in that space in America NFT that time, but I watched the video online. every channel, every keynote. I love that. For me, it is just a very good start for the North America people to know to to know about the Bitcoin ecosystem, to learn more about the projects. And for me, I can learn more about from the the, the views of the investors and the project builders. And, they have very good events.
Josh Kriger [00:01:35]:
Yeah. So and and what about here in Hong Kong? Like, what what's your perspective on what's happening
Kevin He [00:01:40]:
here? Yeah. Hong Kong actually, our base. We are, Singapore Singapore based, projects. And AI, previously living in Hong Kong for for for a long time. And and even for the, for the east builders, there will be a Kelley, very good chance to make the contact with the Bitcoin ecosystem because there there are a lot of builders in in the east. They are diligent and making making fun and ery fast. They can build things, they ship things very fast. And this event just demonstrate to all the builders that that Bitcoin have a great opportunity even at the the specifically in the Bitcoin layer 2 sector.
Kevin He [00:02:24]:
And we, Bitlayer are building a very good moments on Bitcoin layer 2 sector. Yeah. We love them.
Josh Kriger [00:02:31]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks to Bitcoin Asia for being a great host today. Great turnout, really well run event. So before we get into bit layer, you're sharing with me some of your history in this space, which I found fascinating. We started this space about 2017 NFT obviously took very different tracks. You've built 4 L ones. Is that correct? Yes.
Josh Kriger [00:02:57]:
So so, of of break that down for for me because AI I don't I don't know how you built 1 L1 in that amount of time. So you've been quite busy. What what sort of got you into the space, and what are some of the things that you've done?
Kevin He [00:03:10]:
Yeah. The history for me, the journey started is in is in in 2017. I read, Bitcoin's white paper, which has buy me a lot and shot even though you can see, shot me a lot. People can build a system simple like this, but it can works. So I joined this industry. It is a bull market at that time, of of course. And from day 1, I'm building a layer 1. I'm building we, the project is called Yucheng, and we listed in the OKX, it said is it at that AI.
Kevin He [00:03:44]:
And I joined HOBE Group in NFT. And, before that, actually, HOBE Group did not have a specific, blockchain department. We started departments called STARZ Labs. We have over 400 people, engineers there. I'm leading them. In late 2020, we ship our ecosystem chain with 4,000,000 transaction a day and 14,000,000,000 US dollar TVL. These numbers, even NFT, is the even it's can be the best performance in in the his in the in the industry. In 2022, in 2021, I I I launched 2 z k lower for Ethereum, which is a Perp DEX and a Swap DEX.
Kevin He [00:04:29]:
And 2022, we launched a project called Cube, which is backed by Republic Capital. It's a modular AI blockchain. And 2,007 23, a lot I I built I have built, MPC platform, which is, AI blocks competitor for HK List company called AI Hope, which previously of of Hobby Group. And this is, the the previous history for AI. And for big layer, actually, this is the 4th EVM compatible blockchains I'm AI building. And I love that. I love Bitcoin because I I I Janney easily from from the very start because of Bitcoin. And then now I'm back to Bitcoin.
Kevin He [00:05:10]:
This is make me very excited.
Josh Kriger [00:05:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing all that history and and context. And so AI think the next natural sort of step for our listeners is to give them a taste of what is Bitlayer all about. We've talked about it from a from a broad perspective. Maybe you can talk about it a little bit more tactically for us.
Kevin He [00:05:34]:
Before we start this project, actually, we we done a I've done a lot of, research on this area. We think that we we we get some conclusion. 1st, there there are actually no standard here. There are no standard about what is BDC layer 2 even though. Even, there we got a definition for layer 2 in a few months, ago, which is published by the Bitcoin Maxine Maxine's 1 another stand we got a stand here a a few months ago. And second, actually, I think the project because I was working for ABCDE Capital before, I Oh, okay. Both of the projects of the PC layer 2 project come to pitch us, and I know what they are doing, how they works. I think most of the project didn't didn't even see the the the the right pro right problem and the right issues.
Kevin He [00:06:29]:
So they they they they so they can't think they can't figure out the right solution. For me, there are 2 major problem in Bitcoin layer 2 sector. 1st, it's about make Bitcoin a settlement layer, which means need to verify state transition, verify proof on Bitcoin. Never no people have done that before. And second, we should build a trustless bridge upon this the upon the ability we are talking about, our verification ability we're talking about. So these two major issues is not being solved in the in the big DC layer 2 sector. So we think we have the AI, and only this can make a true PDC layer to a big, native PDC layer too. This is a problem we AI, and finally, we are very lucky to find big VM as the project as the tools we are going to use.
Kevin He [00:07:27]:
Big VM is just a new paradigm proposed in October last year that can make us can verify computation on Bitcoin. It just opened a new door for us. Of we own in the whole industry, the the including me, own a big thanks to Rob Bilinos, and it just opened a new door for us. And we actually now are, working on Big VM project. We are the core contributor for Big VM project. Our researchers have done a lot of, research and wrote a lot of AI about big, big VM. We also contribute several opcodes to them and several proposal to to to this project. And, also, we have, since last year, q q last year since they released the white paper last year, q, in October, we start to build the Chinese and the eastern power community.
Kevin He [00:08:19]:
For now, we have over 40 over 50 follower 50 50 k follower for the big VM Wow. Chinese community. Yeah. We have done
Josh Kriger [00:08:31]:
a lot of research and public public publications about Big VM. So maybe this is a walk in the park for you because you've done this three other AI. But what goes through my mind is there's so much ecosystem building happening in real time. Just at this event, there's new products being launched. There's new wallets for Bitcoin. There's new indexes for Bitcoin. There's other types of infrastructure being built. How are you sort of architecting BitLair to be sort of compatible with as much of the ecosystem being built sort of, as it as the car is being driven while your car is being driven and both cars are going a 100 miles an hour, how do you handle all that?
Kevin He [00:09:21]:
Very good question, and I love that. Before we start this project, I wrote several article about this, Bitcoin ecosystem. We AI this about 50 projects on on this area, including actually, we can categorize into several types. 1st, the asset protocol, like BRC, Ordinal, BRC 20, ruins, and ARC 20, and something like that. 1st time is, asset protocol. 2nd time is the scaling or the layer 2 projects AI, like, big layer, c 3. So another projects are building some AI, and and and in layer 2 sector, there are several types of projects, including the UT UTXO model and the EVM compatible AI and side chain. We have several categories categories categories here.
Kevin He [00:10:14]:
And for us, we are building, Bitcoin security equivalence, low up lower low up model for for Bitcoin. It's a, we can say, a real native Bitcoin layer 2 because we are going to verify the state transition on l l on l one Bitcoin l one, which means that till this make Bitcoin into a settlement layer. This is the crucial part for, Bitcoin layer 2.
Josh Kriger [00:10:41]:
So so how does this relate to, like, Taproot protocol and stacks?
Kevin He [00:10:48]:
Yeah. Stacks actually a AI chain. It's a old project. We actually the we we we love them. They have, they have demonstrate to the to the community and the Internet, people can accept this kind of projects and will will, will bridge, Bitcoin into into their side chain, and they can have, they can own own ecosystem. But for me, sidechain is is a very good model, but it's sloppy, the endgame. We should improve the security level from AI chain into in in your lower model because even the the key part is, as I mentioned, is the verification, which the state transition on l two should be verified on l one. This is the key part.
Kevin He [00:11:34]:
Sidechain is the best maybe it's the best model for now, but it should be shouldn't be the end game.
Josh Kriger [00:11:41]:
And and what about Taproot and ruins?
Kevin He [00:11:43]:
Taproot acts it's very important. Without Taproot, there there will be no big VM happens. And even though there there will be no Bitcoin ecosystem, the Tableau, Tableau upgrade, it is the crucial part for Bitcoin ecosystem. We we think that's very important. And our project, big big layer, is going to build Bitcoin, ZK AI, a point type route upgrade. This is the crucial thought.
Josh Kriger [00:12:12]:
They're connecting together.
Kevin He [00:12:13]:
Yes. And
Josh Kriger [00:12:13]:
then what about the rules? Rules. Perfect.
Kevin He [00:12:16]:
I AI love that. And we we think that we also owe a big thanks to to Kelley. And we for Ability Select 2, we just welcome more and more assets, more and more asset protocols because they are all bringing new people, new assets, new liquidity to Bitcoin l one. And because Bitcoin l one, and I think Bitcoin l one is a very good very good place for the asset protocol and asset issuing, but it it's very slow and very NFT. Very we're already in conjunction here, so we need a layer 2. Yeah. This is very for me, I love the the the protographers of of pick of ruins.
Josh Kriger [00:12:59]:
Well, it's really cool to get your perspective in all these. One more I'll throw. What about is is Babylon and what they're building? And how does that relate?
Kevin He [00:13:07]:
Babylon's have a very genius way to make Bitcoin can yield. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a it's a AI chain. It's we can surely call it a side chain. And people, they are just making people comfortable and can trust them to to to to put their their Bitcoin into Babylon Babylon's ecosystem. And Babylon can ship can, can move this Bitcoin Bitcoin liquidity to other ecosystem AI Cosmos and other business layer tools to earn yield. This is very, very good part for the Bitcoin holders. And about the solutions, I have read their article and articles and white paper.
Kevin He [00:13:50]:
They just propose a very genius way a very wise way to to to to, to publish the double sign double sign, signatures. They're using a cryptography method. I think this is great. I think they're great.
Josh Kriger [00:14:05]:
Cool. And and is what you're doing, does it integrate with what they're doing? Yeah. Directly or indirectly?
Kevin He [00:14:11]:
Indirectly. Actually, they actually, maybe Eathan Bitcoin staking protocol, and we can work with them at the, the liquidity parts. And, actually, we are working with them in the liquidity parts. So
Josh Kriger [00:14:28]:
we covered a lot. Really appreciate your breakdown and and a broader perspective on what's going on in the ecosystem. I'm sure you're keeping quite busy in a different in addition to coming to conferences and and growing your community. What's some of the progress and milestones coming up with with BitLair?
Kevin He [00:14:45]:
Yeah. I I have a lot to share. We have saved, 3 version of Mainnet. Actually, we have already made rounds AI Mainnet several weeks before. For now, we have made a lot of progress in v v one pro v v one, and we have launched our Kelley player programs. We have over 66100, project Edge, and we have the the the good project. We have over 2200, and over 60 project already deployed on, on a big layer, big net. And some projects like Big Kelley, Bigout, and Macarons, and Trustseen, they are doing Kelley good job attracting a very a lot of transactions and new users, this ecosystem.
Kevin He [00:15:33]:
And some of of, some of the access, MINCOMS, assets like Booms, already, make a very good progress. And second, our official part, we have launched our Of, lucky Kelley, and it's very popular in in in the market. And it's it is minted in in this in a of short AI. We just do a very very good, very successful mint. This is the and and third, we're actually making more and more progress and about the the operation part and about the liquid. And and and then I like to talk more about the technical progress. We are now we as I NFT before, we are the core contributor for big VM projects. And, also, we, we actually making, making a progress with Star Wars team, which is, our 1st round investor to build an end to end, z k OP plus z k, environments in end to end system to shift our first version I I a second version mainnet in the in the next couple of week of of months.
Kevin He [00:16:38]:
I think, hopefully, we can shift that, public tax that in in about 2 to 3 months. This can be the very good chain very good good part from the big Bitcoin layer 2 sector.
Josh Kriger [00:16:49]:
Very cool. So, you're definitely keeping busy. And, yeah, I can tell how passionate both you and Charlie are about Bitlayer, and it's it's an honor to be one of your partners. Just to, zoom out, before we conclude this conversation, I just had a chance to chat yesterday with the founder of of CoinGecko, get his thoughts on the macro of of this AI. What is the narrative? We talked a little bit about, you know, the importance of of l twos in Bitcoin. But but what's your hot take, on on what are gonna be the the top narratives for this cycle?
Kevin He [00:17:29]:
Actually, I'm a technical guy technical AI, so this is not my expertise. But I'm, and I always bullish of bullish Bitcoin. It can be it can, even get a new new grade for for for Bitcoin. And second, the big I like to talk more about the Bitcoin ecosystem. Bitcoin ecosystem may be the the only way to make Bitcoin ecosystem sustainable in the next few, of halving and halving because we need transaction on chain to subsidize the miners. So we will focus on this part. And for me, the the whole history the the whole protocol, the whole industry is already Kelley here. We have, we have asset protocol.
Kevin He [00:18:15]:
We have a lot of assets. We have native l one protocol, l two protocols, and then we just make we just might want to, build big big layer, build BDC layer 2 to make the to achieve the mass adoption. This is the every everyday I'm thinking about the math achieve the mass adoption.
Josh Kriger [00:18:36]:
Very cool. Thanks, Kevin, for hanging out with us today. Thank you, Bobby. Where can folks find you on x? Do you what's your handle?
Kevin He [00:18:42]:
Yeah. 0xKevin Ho. Kevin Ho.
Josh Kriger [00:18:45]:
Yeah. Alright. You heard it here, guys. Latest update on BitLiar.
Kevin He [00:18:49]:
Thank you. Thank you. Hey.
Josh Kriger [00:18:52]:
Hi, everyone. This is Josh Krueger, coast of Edge of NFT. I am live in Hong Kong at Forked, and we're getting to know some really awesome folks here. I have TM Lee, the CEO and cofounder of of CoinGecko, a product that I of, and I'm really excited to have a chance to chat with you today. How how
TM Lee [00:19:10]:
are you doing? Good. Good. Thanks for having me. It's good to
Josh Kriger [00:19:13]:
be here. When did you arrive in Hong Kong? Just yesterday. Okay. Cool. And you you're based in Malaysia, you said? Yes. So, I came not too far away. I was in Bali. Oh.
Josh Kriger [00:19:26]:
Had to relax a little bit after a big conference that we put on. That was quite exciting. And, there's a lot of folks that have come to Hong Kong for this week. What's your perspective on on sort of what's happening here in terms of, the blockchain and crypto community?
TM Lee [00:19:41]:
Yeah. I think, Hong Kong has always been NFT place. I think it still is. The last time I was here was maybe 5 to 6 years ago, for various reasons. I think NFT is still there. I remember also the first if you were the first few Bitcoin conferences that attended was in Hong Kong as well. It's always good to just be back again to see what has changed. And I think definitely because tomorrow, there's gonna be a Bitcoin conference, and it has expanded with all the activity that we have seen lately with, you know, all the nodes, who owns l two, and whatnot.
TM Lee [00:20:09]:
I think the whole agenda has also been very different than what it used to, and I think, yeah, that's that's good. So I wanna get your perspective on on on sort of all these different trends on
Josh Kriger [00:20:19]:
a macro level because, you see it all at at CoinGecko. But let's start by talking a little bit about the history. You guys were founded in in 2014. Did you have the aspiration to to build one of the largest sort of indexing platform ecosystems in in the world when you started or was that always the vision?
TM Lee [00:20:40]:
Yeah. I think, when we started CoinGecko in the early days, we were AI my cofounder and I, we were just very, very passionate about the industry. Like, all we wanted to do was to solve very specific problem. At the time, the product was really how do we, like how does crypto, derive value? Because other than Bitcoin, there were all the other AI, right, at the time that that's how they put it. And we wanna find out, like, how why did why values, accrue to them. So that was, like, the original, you know, product that we have. I NFT fast forward to today, definitely, the industry has has changed a lot. I think for us also as we move along the journey, we pivot couple of times, and we AI that, the the the the the the the way cryptos, or tokens are launched has also mutated, over AI.
TM Lee [00:21:24]:
And our product, starts to mirror that. Right? We start to ask ourselves, like, what's gonna happen in the next 4 years? We see that anything that can be tokenized will be tokenized, and there'll be millions of tokens, representing all kinds of assets. And we want to be at the center of, center of the the the ecosystem to index and aggregate prices so that it's easily understandable by traders, developers, and anyone who is enthusiast about.
Josh Kriger [00:21:47]:
And that's included building an app that I I I use every day and I'm a fan of. When did you would when did you go into the app side?
TM Lee [00:21:55]:
We I think the app was about NFT, 15, AI. Okay.
Josh Kriger [00:21:59]:
Cool. So AI guess one macro question I have for you. I'm really curious about your perspective. This whole idea in the last cycle was about this decoupling of bitcoin from the mainstream markets. Right? Everyone was like, there's gonna be a separation. And it never really happened the way that people predicted. And what we're even seeing right now is that macro NFT trends around, like, risk around the war that's happening, you know, in Ukraine and the and the Carthon Middle East. They're, impacting the regular market seem to also be impacting the the blockchain and crypto markets.
Josh Kriger [00:22:36]:
Do you sort of see that there's more crossover in, sort of large traders, that crossing both traditional and and crypto markets, and and that that NFT of decoupling, might not ever happen? Or do you do you have a different perspective?
TM Lee [00:22:52]:
Yeah. I think the decoupling thing was really centered around the pieces that Bitcoin access digital gold. I guess that's what, most but still having that kind of pieces. Even I myself still AI to that. But I think always in the short run, the market is always doing its own thing. Right? At the end of the day, I think Bitcoin history is maybe about 14, 15 years. I can't I can't remember for sure, but, it's definitely much shorter than, you know, history of gold. Right? It's still a new kind of asset to a lot of people.
TM Lee [00:23:19]:
There are some new risks that's being introduced where anyone, you know, get gets exposure into Bitcoin. I think that itself creates a kind of correlation with with with the macro market. So I think you would definitely see a lot of that in in the short run. But in the long run, it is a different kind of, asset class, compared to your traditional. Even though right now you got your So
Josh Kriger [00:23:38]:
it Josh was a little bit early for that sort of idea to sort of but you think that is a possibility down the road when the market AI grows. Yes. So so another sort of, macro question I have for you is around this idea of community. We've seen this massive upswing of of attention on mean coins, as you know, and experiencing, of course, every day at CoinGecko. And then there's sort of other communities around the ordinals. There's sort of traditional NFT art community, and then there's also membership communities like the Bored Ape Yacht Club. And then there's d AI projects, and there's all sorts of new categories that are on your site. What kind of crossover are you seeing among these communities? And which of these communities are actually doing the best job of onboarding new users versus recycling existing community?
TM Lee [00:24:27]:
Yeah. I AI think what we are seeing with the explosion of different community or sub community, what have you, is very similar to Internet in the early days. So when when when Internet just started, the kind of people that uses, that uses it are, like, academy academias or AI or what have you. And then later on, we go to a bit more mainstream, which is the web one era. It's more AI people who, were more at the beginning age, right, early adopters. So when you look through that, the history up to today with the Internet, it's very similar to the community in crypto. In the early days, I look for for crypto is the the Bitcoin community is centered around people who, you know, wanted to look at an alternative financial system or people who, wanted to find ways to, you know, transfer money, cheaply. Right? NFT that companies still exist until today, and now you got stable coins and everything.
TM Lee [00:25:17]:
So it's a lot always an evolution. And over time, the, the the fact that the platform in crypto, includes smart contract and everything allows more creativity to just, absorb into the space, which opens up different kind of subcommunities and different ideas gets exchanged around. At the end, it looks like, Internet forums or Internet social media groups that spans off, roaming there. So at the end, I think every community does its own thing in bringing people in. I think even for myself, I I didn't see any reason to get into Bitcoin or crypto, until maybe I understood how economy or money works, and then I find the affinity to get involved. And now there's organized community to the mainstream, like art. So even if you're interested in art or have affinity to art, you can find your way into the industry. Right? So I think it just opens up more different ways for people to relate to the industry or to crypto, with all these different communities.
Josh Kriger [00:26:12]:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So people ask me this question all the AI. So I'm gonna sort of return the favor and ask you. We've had the AI summer trend. We have the NFT trend. Obviously, there's a lot of macro conditions happening now that are are AI, real world assets. You know, gaming is is sort of as hot as it always was, decentralized social.
Josh Kriger [00:26:34]:
What what do you think what what sub communities have the ability to emerge this upcoming sort of cycle as, like, the trend? And you don't have to pick one horse yet because I know it's still Kelley. But what are some of the leading horses in your mind? So I think
TM Lee [00:26:51]:
the answer is really that. I I don't know what the leading horses is also because, so I think historically, there's always that one leading horse that is very, very clear. Yeah. And I think what's a bit different this time NFT is also we are building up on top of, the previous, cycle. Right? So it's reached a point where almost every horse has a reason to take the lead. So, like, just in the last few months, you will see that there's AI, there's RWA, there's all kinds of narrative Josh, like, racing in there. I don't know if there will be, like, a a fill in the blanks summer, per se, but everything looks, interesting, right now. So I'm hoping that NFT Gaming will find his way back again because he has a lot of, promising potential in the last cycle.
TM Lee [00:27:33]:
I think right now, people are still building in the space, and and I'm I'm hoping that that would, come back.
Josh Kriger [00:27:39]:
So I guess I'll I'll put one prediction on and and curious NFT your feedback, which is sort of this Bitcoin L2 trend. I I think that's a big one for this upcoming cycle. What are your thoughts there?
TM Lee [00:27:52]:
Yeah. I think, it opens up, new use cases, get involved, difficult people, different kind of idea as well with, Bitcoin being the settlement layer. So I think that is, worth exploring and and seeing.
Josh Kriger [00:28:03]:
And by the way, shout out to to Bitlayer for powering, this roadshow that we're on and bringing us to Hong Kong where I get to eat too much dim sum for my own well-being. So before we close out, I really appreciate your time today. I know you have a business schedule. Let's talk a little bit about the NFT side of things. You know, you have sort of built in some new features, around NFTs. Maybe tell us a little bit about that for our listeners and and sort of what they can expect in terms of additional enhancements from here.
TM Lee [00:28:31]:
Yeah. So the NFT feature on CoinGecko is relatively a new addition, that we started working on. Basically, we want to aggregate, NFT prices, floor prices, charts, its information across different chains. AI think in the last few years, we saw NFT centered around the Deepgram ecosystem, but now it has gotten, like, beyond that. Right? You got all the numbers you got, Pla, Solana, and so if you come to coinco.com, look at the NFT section, you will find your favorite NFT project that you like to follow or watch this or, you know, follow the price Carthon. You can do that NFT, and and that's a new offering that that we've been working of a lot, P1.
Josh Kriger [00:29:10]:
Very cool. Anything else, recently that you've launched or coming out soon that you can speak about?
TM Lee [00:29:16]:
Yeah. We also have a new product called Of, which is a on chain tracker. I think that's also something that we, working on a lot as well, based on all the new stuff that's going on. So I would say that these are, among the new stuff they're working on, but always, you know, check out konango.com, and there's all the features are are still there. Alright.
Josh Kriger [00:29:32]:
Well, thanks so much, Centimeters, for hanging out with us. Have a great time in Hong Kong. And, it was honored to meet you and, really appreciate the work you do in our space. AI. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Edge of an Feet Roadshow Edition here at Ordinals Asia in Hong Kong. This special episode is powered by BitLair.
Josh Kriger [00:29:51]:
We love what they're doing. And, I know they're very close to our guest today. Albert, who is the founder of BTC Startup Lab and has become a good friend over the last few years. Albert, it's great to have you on the show.
Albert Liang [00:30:07]:
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Josh.
Josh Kriger [00:30:09]:
So, there's a lot of action here in this room, and it's been a busy week. I know we're both tired. What's the vibe here in Hong Kong, and how does it fit into the overall Bitcoin ecosystem in your mind?
Albert Liang [00:30:23]:
Well, the energy here is is palpable. And I think that's quite representative of how Bitcoin is performing. All the new founders, all the new money, all the new attention that Bitcoin's been getting.
Josh Kriger [00:30:35]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And it's obviously keeping you busy. AI your your lab keeps growing in demand and popularity. I think one thing that is fascinating to me about it is how a lot of these sort of experienced entrepreneurs come in sort of without knowing, you know, where they're going with their concept. They have, ideas. Right? And some of them are bad AI, but out of it comes great ideas. You just finished one accelerator program, you're starting another.
Josh Kriger [00:31:03]:
What were some of the highlights of the recent program and, you know, the types of projects that are coming out?
Albert Liang [00:31:09]:
Yeah. I mean, let me answer on 2 levels. 1, let's let's talk statistics. We had about 40 teams going in, which is, up to date the the largest, forward in terms of people. And then, we had a little over 50% completion rate, which means 50 over 50% got the demo day. And about half of those raised funding afterwards. So we're we're at 25% funding rate from NFT when they start, it's 50%.
Josh Kriger [00:31:36]:
NFT starting from like 0.
Albert Liang [00:31:38]:
0. It's actually it's actually probably less than 0. Right? I I I technically define 0 as when you have a idea that can actually become a startup. Yeah. AI? So I mean, 25% is pretty good, but
Josh Kriger [00:31:49]:
That's a 3 month program or 3 and a half months? Uh-huh. Cool. And what were the types of, companies that that came out
Albert Liang [00:31:56]:
of it? Like, what were some
Josh Kriger [00:31:57]:
of the common themes? Are we talking about infrastructure, gaming?
Albert Liang [00:32:02]:
Yeah. I mean, there is a couple of, bridging companies. Right? That bridge digital assets from Bitcoin L1 to L2 or from other chains of Bitcoin. That that's, solely needed. Obviously, Roon's is a huge topic. So it it actually wasn't launched yet. It launched after our program, but some of our founders are very smart. They started building tools for Rooms before Rooms launched.
Josh Kriger [00:32:29]:
Nice.
Albert Liang [00:32:30]:
So one of them is actually Eathan they're behind us right now, Renaissance. You can put up your rune as collateral and get b to c back. Nice. So it's like a lending. Yeah. And then we have, like a order of work for Roons as well. But, yeah. I mean, infrastructure, consumer products, in NFT, bitcoin.
Albert Liang [00:32:47]:
We have one company that went to Dogecoin.
Josh Kriger [00:32:51]:
Okay.
Albert Liang [00:32:51]:
Yeah. It's it's like NFT it's a really cool fun project.
Josh Kriger [00:32:54]:
Did they connect you with the bitcoin ecosystem?
Albert Liang [00:32:57]:
Yeah. They came in. They came in and then, as you know, Dogecoin is also UCXL technology.
Josh Kriger [00:33:03]:
Oh, okay.
Albert Liang [00:33:04]:
And and AI, hey, you know, everything I learned at BigQuery Startup Lab can be applied there where there's less competition. And now they're they're thinking about bridging stuff over. Alright, cool. Before. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:33:14]:
So let's zoom out for a minute. You know, there's a lot of talk about Bitcoin ecosystem being a major part of this bull cycle, and and beyond this cycle being where all the attention is not only gotten to but it's actually bringing in new individuals to the overall blockchain ecosystem now more than ever because it gives Bitcoin additional utility. Give us some predictions, some real hard data on what you're seeing in terms of the growth of the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Albert Liang [00:33:54]:
Yeah. Well, let's put it this way. When I when I launched my, 22nd core, it is actually my first all big of core in 2022. And at that time, we had 0 founders from Ethereum. They're all from Bitcoin. Everyone was from Bitcoin. Fast forward to summer of NFT, about 1 year later, it's already 1 to 8. Still in favor of Bitcoin builders.
Albert Liang [00:34:20]:
Our most recent cohort AI just graduated is 1 to 3, still in favor of Bitcoin. But get this, this cohort that's starting on Monday, May 13th is 1 to 1 now. So my prediction is by the end of the year, it'll be 5 to 1 in favor of Ethereum builders. I'm also gonna make another prediction that I estimate about 5% NFT Ethereum builders will have come to Bitcoin by end of the year. Which means that Bitcoin ecosystem in terms of builders and entrepreneurs will have more than doubled.
Josh Kriger [00:34:48]:
Wow. And if that turns into you, obviously, there'd be a hockey stick at some point, you know, in the The next year or 2. Right?
Albert Liang [00:34:55]:
Yeah. I I think the next 12 months is the inflection point. Yeah. Because we're still most of the infrastructure is not not built yet. Right? There's over a 100 l twos who throw their hat. You know, most of them are not launched yet.
TM Lee [00:35:09]:
Yeah.
Albert Liang [00:35:09]:
Right? There's a lot of AI the bridging I was talking about. There's there's almost no bridging. They'll you count them on on on of one one half. Right? Or TPNs.
Josh Kriger [00:35:16]:
It's similar to, you know, the gaming industry with Blockchain where there's been 1,000,000,000 of dollars invested, but these games take 3 to 5 years to build. So a lot of them have not been released yet. So what we're seeing on the ground is just the beginning of what's being built around Bitcoin.
Albert Liang [00:35:32]:
Got it.
Josh Kriger [00:35:32]:
Yeah. Cool. So if folks are excited about what you guys are doing, I know you guys have a lot of cool educational content that people can tap into. Where do they go?
Albert Liang [00:35:42]:
They go to btcstartuplab.com. You can check out our program. We have the biggest and best AI quality network for Bitcoin of globally. You could there's a sign up link if you're interested. Right? If you saw them through Josh's show, say, mention Josh and we'll expedite your your application. Alright. Because we have way too many applications to handle right now.
Josh Kriger [00:36:09]:
Very cool. Well, thanks so much for spending some time with us. And, you know, it's great hanging out with you today. It's been great having fun events together. For those of you that live in LA, we did an event together to close out NFT, like, community week on Friday.
Albert Liang [00:36:24]:
Yeah. That was fun. That was fun. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:36:25]:
It was good AI. And, looks for more in the future. A little hint there.
Albert Liang [00:36:29]:
Thanks, Albert. Thanks, Josh.
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