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Dive into the electrifying realm of Web 3 and NFTs with Trevor Owens and Debbie Soon. Discover the groundbreaking Ordinals Lisbon event, featuring the convergence of NFTs, meme coins, as well as insights from Pizza Ninjas and Hug co-founders. Uncover the value of building unique identities on Web 3 and the potential for collective ownership and co-creation.
This episode is brought to you by Pizza Ninjas, a fun and innovative pizza delivery service that brings delicious, freshly made pizzas right to your door with a unique twist.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Integration of Communities at Events: The episode introduces a unique event concept, "1 ticket, 5 events," aiming to integrate diverse communities, such as NFT enthusiasts, meme token communities, and AI innovators, for a holistic experience.
- Evolution and Impact of NFTs: The discussion delves into the evolving role of NFTs in art and technology, showcasing their potential for community building, artistic connection, and the creation of unique digital identities on platforms like Bitcoin and Ethereum.
- Bridging Art and Technology: Featuring insights from guests like Randi Zuckerberg and Debbie Soon, the conversation emphasizes the intersection of NFTs and AI, highlighting the importance of empowering artists with technology for sustainable growth and community engagement.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- "The Web 3 model fundamentally changes how businesses are built. It allows you to build an extremely passionate community that can share in the upside or potential upside of what you're building, but also be a co-creator to your company, your project, etcetera." - Trevor Owens (00:03:37 00:03:48)
- "And, since I got into NFTs in 2021, I've always just seen like, I've always been a true believer, and I've always wanted to show that that, like, I believe that this is a disruptive business model, and just the intellectual interest in it, and also seeing that how it, like, changes businesses, is really actually motivation."- Trevor Owens (00:05:28 00:05:56)
- The Power of NFTs "The real most powerful use case is, like, mobilising a community around a goal." - Trevor Owens (00:08:48 00:08:52)
For the full transcript, see further below.
People and Resources Mentioned:
- Debbie Soon LinkedIn
- Hug Website
- Trevor Owens LinkedIn
- Ninja Alerts Website
- Randi Zuckerberg LinkedIn
- Ordinals Website
- Maincard.io Website
Connect With Us:
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About Our Guests:
- Bio:Debbie Soon is a co-CEO of Hub, a platform designed to empower artists in the Web 3 era by helping them become successful entrepreneurs. She focuses on fostering community growth and providing artists with resources such as grants and gallery placements. Debbie is dedicated to encouraging more openness and inclusivity in the Web 3 community, especially in artistic interactions.
- Website: Hug
- Twitter: @debsoon
- Instagram: soondiggity
- LinkedIn: Debbie Soon
- Bio: Trevor Owens is a co-founder of Pizza Ninjas and an advocate for the transformative potential of NFTs in building passionate communities and innovative projects. He is actively engaged in bridging different communities within the Web 3 ecosystem and is currently focusing on developing Bitcoin native IP and fun projects like Pizza Pets. Trevor is committed to attracting top-tier builders and artists to collaborate and co-create within the decentralized space.
- Website: Ninja Alerts
- Twitter: @TO, @Pizza_Ninjas, @Ninjalerts
- LinkedIn: Trevor Owens
- Bio: Randi Zuckerberg has long been a pioneer in both technology & media. As an early employee at Facebook & the creator of Facebook Live, she was on the front lines of shaping the social internet & how billions interact with content. She is now the CEO and co-founder of HUG.
- Website: The Hug
- Twitter: @randizuckerberg
- Instagram: @randizuckerberg
- LinkedIn: Randi Zuckerberg
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This is not financial or tax advice. Edge of NFT content is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. Whenever making financial decisions, we recommend doing your own research and talking to your accountant for financial advice. Disclosure: From time-to-time we may feature sponsored content for which we receive value and we may share links for which we receive a commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. See our full Disclaimer (https://www.edgeofnft.com/disclaimer), Terms & Conditions (https://www.edgeofnft.com/terms-of-use), Privacy Policy (https://www.edgeofnft.com/privacy-policy), and Copyright Notice (https://www.edgeofnft.com/copyright-notice) for details.
Full Episode Transcript:
Josh Kriger [00:00:00]:
Hey, Web 3 curious friends. Today's very special episode was shot live in Lisbon, Portugal at NFC Summit. Shout out to Pizza Ninjas who sponsored this roadshow as part of a media partnership with Ordinals Lisbon, one of the key events co created with NFC Summit. On today's show, you'll learn why the cofounder of Pizza Ninjas went all in on building a community unlike any other, and find out how Randy Zuckerberg and Debbie Soon, co founders of Hug, have managed to get over a 1000 digital artists into IRL Galleries and are not stopping there. Plus, what an impromptu live version of Randi’s Famous, we're all gonna make it, AKA Wagami song, sounds like with the head pizza ninja as her duet partner. Then we move over to what another Ordinal community leader, Boo, thinks about the potential of the Bitcoin ecosystem and how everyone can get more out of life with a little help from AI. Lastly, learn how passion, creativity, and vision AI with true cocreation to NFT a unique event from its founder's own perspective. But first, you might be wondering what exactly a pizza ninja is, so let's get that out of the way.
Josh Kriger [00:01:05]:
Pizza ninjas are interactive ninja POPs inscribed on exotic pizza sats. Your Ninja includes full IP rights and doubles as a lifetime pass to Ninja alerts, Bitcoin, or trading software, and Alpha Group. And for full disclosure from your host today, I have minted and held on to AI pizza ninja and enjoy being part of this great community even though it often means eating top tier pizza and breaking my keto diet. So grab a slice of pizza and cue the intro.
Intro [00:01:35]:
Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast that brings you the top NFT% of web 3 today and what will stand the test of time. We explore the nuts and bolts of the business side and also the human element about web 3 is changing the way we interact with the things we love. This podcast is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers who are pumped about this ecosystem and driving where it goes next.
Josh Kriger [00:02:02]:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another edition of Edge of NFT live in Lisbon. I'm here at the ordinal summit with our partner, Pizza Ninjas, who brought us here. Shout out to them. And, cofounder Trevor Owens is on the show. What's up, Trevor?
Trevor Owens [00:02:16]:
What's going on, Josh? Great to be here.
Josh Kriger [00:02:18]:
Great to see you. I've been seeing you all over the world and, you know, it was just a few weeks ago when you created an LSG moment for me where we're at the pizza ninja yacht party and told me what you're doing and I had to see for myself. I canceled the trip to Austin and here I am.
Trevor Owens [00:02:37]:
Awesome. So glad you could make it. It's my pleasure.
Josh Kriger [00:02:41]:
You know, full disclosure, I've known Trevor a long time, and I minted a ninja at the beginning of his endeavor here because, really, I just believe in you, man. And, whatever you're up to. And it is that Kelly didn't give it a thought. I didn't do any due diligence on this one either.
Trevor Owens [00:03:02]:
So My favorite kind of holder. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:03:04]:
So let's just start. We have a lot to talk about. NFT let's Josh start with giving folks a 4 one one on what Pizza Ninja's all about. Why did you decide to do this at this point in your sort of illustrious career in the blockchain industry?
Trevor Owens [00:03:20]:
Yeah. So I believe that the Web 3 model, like, fundamentally changes how businesses are built. Right? I think that in the web 2 model, it's like you have this really high risk, challenging to go to market. And the web 3 model allows you to build an extremely passionate community that can share in the upside or potential upside of what you're building, but also be a co creator to, your company, your project, etcetera. And if you can actually make that work, it's the biggest advantage you can have in the marketplace for any entrepreneur. So was part of the impetus AI you've been coaching entrepreneurs, investing in entrepreneurs for, a long AI. Yeah. Over a decade.
Josh Kriger [00:04:14]:
Yeah. Was it to AI, sort of put the, sort of proof in the pudding per se and show, like, what you've actually taught entrepreneurs and learned from entrepreneurs over the last few decades in the space. Was that some of the sort of catalyst? Partially,
Trevor Owens [00:04:33]:
I would say, it's definitely AI, I wanna always hone my skills. Right? Like, if you wanna be a great investor, you have to be a builder. Like, there's many great investors who haven't been builders before, but most of the worst investors haven't been builders before. Right. But I think NFT I think about, like, my core why, it's really much more personal than that. It's AI, I wanna be proud of something. I wanna leave a legacy, that I can, like, know that I did what I like, I reached my potential. And so, you know, I've been an entrepreneur and builder for a decade and a half, starting different companies.
Trevor Owens [00:05:14]:
And, I built some great things, but never something that I felt, like, reflected what I was capable of. And so for me, like, being a builder is about Kelley just, like, that self actualization of reaching your potential. Yeah. And, since I got into NFTs in 2021, I've always just seen like, I've always been a true believer, and I've always wanted to show that that, like, I believe that this is a disruptive business model, and just the intellectual interest in it, and also seeing that how it, like, changes businesses, is really actually motivation. You know, it's AI, I didn't I don't, like, look at it like, oh, you have to do this or you have to encode this buzzword. You know, it's like a lot of companies are pivoting to AI. Right? But for me, I'm like, wow, this makes perfect sense for what I'm trying to do. And I also really enjoy it and I'm passionate about it.
Josh Kriger [00:06:12]:
Right on. Right on. So speaking of, like, making sense, AI never asked you this question, but I'm curious if you had ruminations on any kind of concepts related to AI Bitcoin NFTs before ordinals was a thing. Right? I. You've been trying to get me more focused on what's going on in the Bitcoin ecosystem. And you've been thinking about probably every possible use case there is in the Bitcoin ecosystem as a managing partner of Stacks and bit Bitcoin Frontier Fund. What were your early conceptions of NFTs as related to Bitcoin before ordinals became a thing? If you had any. Yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:06:56]:
So I mean, of course, there's been NFTs on layer twos on Bitcoin, like Stacks. And I think with ordinals, it basically showed that you could create new types of assets on layer 1. And they also formed a great community of builders, and they formed a lot of momentum around it. And I think it also improved. I think it also did it the best way possible, and improved upon some of the drawbacks or flaws with the way that if NFT were being done in other blockchains. And, when it comes to, like, the use case, I do think that Bitcoin is better for, like, high end, you know, sort of luxury art, like, very valuable, like, NFTs. It's not like a platform where you're going to have, you know, a 1000000 web 3 in game items, you know, on it.
Josh Kriger [00:07:49]:
But NFT, we're now seeing some low cost MIDS happening. And, is that a derivation of better technology, lower gas fees, you know, l twos on Bitcoin? You know, runes can be split up and fractionalized. Right? So how so that seems a little bit counter to sort of this high end sort of art only thesis that originally was sort of the narrative.
Trevor Owens [00:08:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that there's a built in scarcity to block space on Bitcoin. Right? And so that includes PFP projects, that includes all types of NFT assets. And what I think that for me, you know, I love, of course, like, digital art, but obviously, the use case I'm interested in is BFPs. Right? And when I first got into NFTs, like, I think that the real most powerful use case is, like, mobilizing a community around a goal. Right? And so, you know, one of my one of my friends, Udi Wertheimer, Taproot Wizards, I love what he's doing because he NFT out a very clear road map for, here's what we're doing, here's what we're about, and here's how we're gonna achieve it. And I think that's, like, the core use case for PAP projects specifically.
Trevor Owens [00:09:11]:
Of course, for digital artists, the use case, RDS product market, the use case is clear. It's very highly correlated to the art market. But the new thing that we're unlocking that AI think has NFT bigger implications is how are new businesses built, and how do you mobilize a community to participate in not just being a passive member, but being a contributor, right? And when it comes to Bitcoin, I kind of think of every Blockchain like its own country, let's say. Like, you know, like, I worked in China for a long time, and China has their own YouTube, it has their own WhatsApp, which is WeChat. They have their own Google. They have their own, basically, every single thing. Like, NFTs on Bitcoin, in my opinion, are part of the critical path, stepping stone for Bitcoin to reach its own mass adoption. Nice.
Trevor Owens [00:10:08]:
By the way, I
Josh Kriger [00:10:09]:
I often use the Game of Thrones analogy with the blockchain industry. I feel like that also applies. There's a lot of different AI out there and, you know, how they interact and whether or not that goes well or doesn't, it always sort of is a mystery at the moment. Right? There's a lot more crossover of kingdoms
Josh Kriger [00:10:31]:
these days
Josh Kriger [00:10:31]:
too. With, you know, some of the technology AI the Beyond guys around my panel were talking about where you can take tokens and bring them over to Bitcoin. And I think folks are looking to bring Bitcoin projects over to other chains. So I think that's an interesting narrative that may be critical to where we go from now. What are your thoughts on that?
Trevor Owens [00:10:55]:
Yeah. You know, I think that, at a core level, like, you have the Blockchain trilemma. Right? And I think that there will be a layer 1 Blockchain on each side of the triangle, right, that's successful. You know, I don't know how NFT, like there are probably many smaller ones Josh likes, you know, we have the US, we have China, we have the EU. Right? And then we have, you know, the Vatican or, you know, these different city states, Of, Singapore. You know what I mean? Like, it will be a globalized world. Powerful but concentrated energy. Yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:11:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. But also a smaller population. Yeah. And so, yeah, I view, like, these Blockchains are capital networks, they're social networks, they have their own currency, you know, the AI of closest analogy is AI, a country.
Josh Kriger [00:11:43]:
If the Bitcoin ecosystem was one country, what country would it be?
Trevor Owens [00:11:47]:
Yeah, you know, I like to obviously say it's the US, you know? But I also think, like, we always say, like, Ethereum is
Josh Kriger [00:11:54]:
I mean, you can say that now because the ETFs passed and now even the e ETF has gone through.
Trevor Owens [00:12:00]:
Yeah. I mean
Josh Kriger [00:12:01]:
6 months ago, I I I don't know.
Trevor Owens [00:12:02]:
Yeah. I'll give you a couple of different ways I think about it. I think about, like, the, like, the biggest holder of Bitcoin is the US of, AI, the FBI from, like, what they've they've taken from these different, like, investigations and things like that. The biggest holder of Ethereum is, like, North Kelley, you know. It's like that's what Bitcoin I wanna say, but I also think that, AI, there's also the analogy of, like, Ethereum is the one driving off. It's the test NFT, so to speak, and Bitcoin is copying innovation, you know. And you can fill in the blank for what those countries are. Fair enough.
Trevor Owens [00:12:33]:
So, so
Josh Kriger [00:12:36]:
On the panel I moderated yesterday, we're talking a little bit about the catalyst and the roadblocks, for the next growth cycle. And before AI, I looked at the latest trends on Magic Eden and things are down. Yeah. Apes, you know, were 12th last time I checked. You know, even a lot of the rooms and ordinal projects have dipped. AI I think that's pretty interesting when from the conference perspective, from the narrative, it's a healthy narrative, I think, in the media relative to say 6 months ago. And conferences are booming, token NFT sold out. We had our event in Riyadh, which sold out.
Josh Kriger [00:13:26]:
You know, this event's popping. So can you describe why there's this juxtaposition going on?
Trevor Owens [00:13:35]:
Yeah. I mean, we've been in this phase for a while where there haven't been new meaningful people coming into space. We've hit a new all time high for Bitcoin, but, really, the bull mark kicks off when you're 10 k, 20 k above the all time high, at least for the pricing that we're at now. And I think that with Ordinal specifically, AI, January, February, a lot of Ethereum people came in. And they weren't necessarily AI, they were kind of, like, riding the hype waves. We had, you know, a Binance list already. We had tons of new liquidity coming in. Then the Ethereum folks who the artist, like, convicted about ordinals sort of followed the hype train.
Trevor Owens [00:14:13]:
And now, you know, having come and gone. People thought, like, that the bull market would come, you know, far, like, earlier than it traditionally has in every past having where it was 6 months after the having. People thought it was gonna happen, like, around the having. It didn't. You know, Runes was not an overnight success. Although, I think that what I'm seeing with Runes and all the teams building on is extremely bullish, but, you know, I'm looking at leading indicators. Or or epic, epic, epic, epic. Yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:14:42]:
AI looking at the leading indicators, not the momentum. Right? Okay. And so
Josh Kriger [00:14:46]:
By the way, Trevor I mean, we didn't talk about the fact that Pizza Ninjas gives you superpowers with Ninja alerts, which is the app that Trevor Siemens built. That sort of, I've been playing with the new version that just just came out. It gives everyone sort of alpha on the top collectors and traders and what they're doing in the space. And what's really cool about it is you can zoom in on a collection, find the top collectors in that collection, and then look at what they're doing at the macro level. So, a really novel concept. Just a little segue. Go ahead.
Trevor Owens [00:15:20]:
Yeah. So, anyway, I think that, like, I think that the mark got inflated because there's a lot of people riding the hype train. Ruins wasn't over as his ass, so people just kind of are, like, leaving. But we're gonna go sideways for a while, and then the bull market's gonna come and we're gonna go up. I mean, it's a story as old as time. What
Josh Kriger [00:15:40]:
NFT bull market? What's a while?
Trevor Owens [00:15:43]:
6 months after the halving. Like, the same thing that we've seen every other time. I mean, it could come earlier, you know, like, it's Josh, you know, probability based what's gonna happen macro. Macro still leads, you know, what happens in crypto. But the thing is, like, there's a tipping point once we get to that, 80 k, 90 k Bitcoin price. We have all these ETFs coming in. Like, there's a lot of bullish signals. Like you said, like, at Hornalls Lisbon yesterday, like, the room was Josh, like, energy, like, bullish, like, everybody's excited.
Josh Kriger [00:16:12]:
It was loud. It was like peep between breaks, AI, people were excited. There's a lot to talk about. A lot of buildings. Yeah. I can't remember the last time we had this type of energy in space. It feels like it's been long overdue. And certainly, great to see, all the folks that you pulled in.
Josh Kriger [00:16:34]:
Tell us a little bit about ordinals, Lisbon. You know, we're at NFT NFT conference AI, and there's an entire stage that's just about ordinals. And, this was sort of a conception that you and John put together?
Trevor Owens [00:16:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I connected with John, like, do literally, like, 2 months ago, and we kind of decided to do this, right after NFT NYC, and we put together very, very quickly. And, yeah, we as the host co host of the ordinal show, you know, I have all my favorite guests and friends that come on the show, and builders, collectors, you know, and and we just got everybody together. We got them to Lisbon, and we put 70 speakers onto the stage over one day, a ton of panels, and it was awesome. And I think that there's been a ton of new people here at NFT where there are collectors on Ethereum, and in Web 3, or they're new to the space, they're coming through, AI I heard so many people ask about it. Me yesterday, like, what's Originals? You know? And it's, like, that's what I love to see. You know, we did this here because we wanted to get exposure to the rest of the web 3 ecosystem.
Trevor Owens [00:17:43]:
We wanna create a melting pot to, you know, bridge the communities. Right? Like, ultimately, different Blockchains compete in some way, but it's actually too early to be competitive because our biggest competitor is the legacy system. And, you know, yesterday, I, like, I talked to people. I was talking about rare stats and how Bitcoin is working. Like, the collaborations are happening here, which is awesome.
Josh Kriger [00:18:07]:
That that's exciting. And yeah. I mean, I was just in Hong Kong, with you and some others, and that whole focus was the Bitcoin ecosystem. And then, you know, I would say that, there's been a lot of of separate, adjacent events around sort of Bitcoin versus Ethereum ecosystem. And as I reflect on what you've done, I I I don't remember the last time there's been this AI type of co creation. So I can see why you, like, jumped at that opportunity because it's not about talking about co-creation. It's actually figuring out how to make the sausage. Right?
Trevor Owens [00:18:50]:
Dude, 100%. I mean, you just, like, read my mind right now because I think cocreation is the keyword for this technology. Right? I think it's about shared ownership and co-creation. It's not so different from what we see in the open source software world, but it's about applying that to diverse industries and amplifying that, levering it up to where it becomes very potent. And I think that just changes everything about how business is done. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:19:20]:
Right on. So we're reflecting a little bit before this interview about this moment in terms of the broader sort of picture of what's to come from, from a building perspective. How do you think a long bear market like this affects building and entrepreneurship in sort of the nature of creativity in this space?
Trevor Owens [00:19:48]:
Yeah. I mean, I definitely think that we're at the bottom of the hype of the hype cycle. You know, it's AI. The hype cycle goes like this. We're like right here. And what that means is, actually, good things are to come. You know? Our bags are down bad. We've already lost 90%. And so here is where the real, like, pragmatism comes in.
Trevor Owens [00:20:09]:
Where the real, like, realism and understanding comes in, as to what this technology is capable of. We still don't know yet, but we know so many things that don't work. And here is where builders become much more productive, much more efficient, and they start to be able to actually build things that work. You know, starting with, like, niche applications and things like that. But eventually, they start to gain real adoption, and they get and investment comes in, and the ecosystem starts to grow towards that mainstream adoption. Right? Where in the mainstream adoption phase, you know, like, we have a really rich ecosystem. We have, like, broadly available training and expertise. We have integration of all the tools from, you know, the full stack.
Trevor Owens [00:20:59]:
It's lower cost to deploy. And, you know, Josh seamlessly integrated into our daily lives, basically. Kriger? Makes sense. So is is the game that you guys
Josh Kriger [00:21:09]:
are working on, maybe we can talk to folks about a little bit, sort of your direct stab at supporting mass adoption, or is that just more of a fun community play for the folks that are already excited about the space?
Trevor Owens [00:21:23]:
Yeah. I would say that our primary goal is just to build cool shit. Right? Like, we wanna we we know, like, the core use case for P2P project is that we want this to be people's identity. We want them to have a unique, like, identity in Web 3. We want to make it cool. We want to make it distinct, brandable. But then we wanna do other fun stuff that sharpens our tools when it comes to building on ordinals, building on Blockchain. And so we also just wanna do things that we think are cool, resonate with our audience.
Trevor Owens [00:22:01]:
And so when it comes to, like, inscribing Super Nintendo, you know, on AI, right, like, that was just something that, like, we wanted to see happen. You know, we wanted to have it happen. It resonated with us. We knew how to do it, and so we did it. Right? Will that lead to other things? Potentially, but also maybe not. Right? A lot of these are, like, a fun thing, you know, it's, like, to show people what they can do. Maybe someone else will do something with it as well. On ordinals, But your next mint is like NFT.
Trevor Owens [00:22:37]:
Oh, even pizza bets.
Josh Kriger [00:22:38]:
Yeah. Yes.
Trevor Owens [00:22:39]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Josh Kriger [00:22:40]:
So
Josh Kriger [00:22:41]:
So so I'm like,
Trevor Owens [00:22:41]:
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll talk
Josh Kriger [00:22:42]:
to you. It's like, why the bottom of the market do you do a 10,000 collection? There's gotta be a reason.
Trevor Owens [00:22:48]:
No. It's not a 10,000. It's much bigger. Pizza Pets is the 1st on- chain Tamagotchi Kelley game on Bitcoin, probably in space, you know. And so, this is, again, like, sort of all online to build cool shit, but it also does have a real application, which I'll tell you about in a sec. When it comes to how ordinals are built and structured, like, it's really perfect for this type of game. Right? Like, you can have it, you can have an ordinal, and then the state of that ordinal can change over time with stuff the user does, right, without any smart contract. So the first initial idea was, like, man, I just really wanna see this exist.
Trevor Owens [00:23:28]:
But more broadly, with the piece of ninja our goal is to build Bitcoin native IP. Right? We think that Bitcoin is the most mainstream cryptocurrency. IP built on Bitcoin will become the most mainstream IP. And so it ties it to technological innovation. AI I look at all the most successful projects in the space, they all did something new and novel and cool. Bored Apes was the first to do IP, like, licensing the IP to their holders. Azuki gave the NFT a contract. Okay? Small things.
Trevor Owens [00:24:03]:
Right? And CryptoKitties. Right? Like, we all know we all know CryptoKitties.
Josh Kriger [00:24:08]:
I mean, that was my first foray into space. I met Mac, one of the original founders of CryptoKitties at a bar with 8 people, you know, a month after that blew up. And, yeah. I mean, what a ride that's been. I think the dapper guys have just kinda worked things out with the SEC quietly. Hope hope all is well in that world. Yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:24:31]:
Yeah. So I fundamentally believe that the core audience is the builders, the tinkerers, the smartest people in the space. You're always marketed to the smartest people in the room because if you can win them over, they're gonna bring everybody else. And that's the most long term sustainable. Right? Like, of course, there's other approaches. This is the approach that I believe most in for us, and that we can succeed at. And so that means that pizza ninjas, AI SNES, have them make it interactive, Make it NFT make an application, not a PFE. That means for other IPs that we create, it has to be technologically impressive and novel, and do something that no one has done before.
Trevor Owens [00:25:14]:
Because NFT, it's gonna become a brand in the space, and then you're gonna ride the adoption curve from those literally, the adoption curve starts with innovators. Right? Like, the technology life cycle adoption also this is what every start ups do. Innovators, then early adopters, then early majority, then late majority. And so we're marketing to those innovators. You know, like, we're going to the builders, and we're saying, hey. Like, we actually had a feature to ordinals, the ordinals protocol for this. So, like, we developed a feature that Kelley and Jeff add ordinals. Oh, wow.
Trevor Owens [00:25:52]:
Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's approved yet, but then we've gotten all the green lights. That's being integrated because, like, there's certain things that we needed to make this work. It wasn't AI, something really, really different, but it's just like AI, a thing that we needed for the scalability of it. But the point is, like, we wanna create an AI. We wanna create a universe. We wanna create a world with ninjas that love pizza, that they train in the dojo, and that they have, you know, pets, games, etcetera. Of course, our first product is really focused on software and Ninja alerts.
Trevor Owens [00:26:25]:
But in the future, again, this is we want people to be able to create anything with their ninjas. We want people to be able to create any type of brand, any type of industry, and so the more we give them the more we we can create good IP that they can utilize, the more that and the more we attract the best builders, the best artists to our community, convert them into contributors, this is how we get the engine working of decentralized co creation of a web 3 brand and IB.
Josh Kriger [00:26:56]:
Amazing. There's a you have a great team, by the way, and, they share your ethos and passion, and they're just good hearted people. I feel your energy resonating within them. I'm curious within the community, is there someone that is there a ninja holder that you could shut out that maybe is AI the least expected ninja holder? Someone that maybe wasn't part of the Bitcoin ecosystem, wasn't part of the Ethereum ecosystem, It somehow heard about pit Pizza Ninjas and joined, and they might even know why. I'm really curious if you can point to any members of the community. This is a reflection of sort of this broader intent that you've created here.
Trevor Owens [00:27:47]:
Yeah. I mean, so, actually, we have one of our holders, he brought out well with us. His name is Kelley Tan, and he's a DJ. He's a musician, and he wrote 2 songs about pizza ninjas. And so he lives here in Europe, so we're like, hey. Come out. We had him DJ at our party, and he's been using his ninja as his brand and IP. Right? So it's like when and I think I believe it because there's his first ordinal, and he bought it because he wanted to use it as his as his as his brand.
Josh Kriger [00:28:14]:
He liked AI? Yeah. Yeah. He
Trevor Owens [00:28:15]:
no. He wanted he wanted he liked the fact that we give him the rights to use it, and we AI those rights on chain.
Josh Kriger [00:28:21]:
And he liked the art, obviously.
Trevor Owens [00:28:22]:
Yeah. Obviously. And so, like, our job is to support our holders. Right? That's what the job of a founder is. And you have to support your whole life, not just your contributors. Right? Like, to support all the holders, you know, we do, we did the rooms boot camp, right, to help our holders be prepared for stuff. You have to do a lot of stuff to be assessed with a project. You have to juggle multiple things, and figure out what the real and but also focus on, like, that one like, those core drivers.
Trevor Owens [00:28:51]:
But, you know, when we have holders who are actually using the Ninja as IP, oh AI god. I'm 110% behind those people. You know, like, I will do everything in my power to help them level up in their career. If they're a musician, artist, etcetera, unconditional support, you know, behind them because those are the people who are, like, those are our co creators. You know? So that's, like, the fundamental model is, like, supporting those contributors to have their own brand that's successful with the IB, and then converting more holders into contributors, and, of course, attracting new holders and stuff like that. But that creates the flywheel. Right? Like, the better the more successful he can be with his music, and also even make partnerships here. Like, he's talking to people who are doing decentralized music labels, and, like, getting him more to the Web 3, whereas AI just us supporting him, like, you know, a 100%, but we're bringing other people, we're connecting him with other partners, and we're giving him opportunities because, it's a it's a a collaborative effort together.
Trevor Owens [00:29:59]:
And, yeah, everyone has to make the pizza and enjoy the pizza together.
Josh Kriger [00:30:04]:
AI else it's not a pizza party.
Trevor Owens [00:30:06]:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:30:07]:
Cool, man. Well, thanks so much for hanging and, you know, bringing Edge of NFT to Lisbon. It's my first time here in 20 years. It's great to be back. And, Yeah. Thanks to Pizza Ninjas for what they're doing. If folks wanna learn more, about Pizza Ninjas and, you know, Pizza Pets, which will have, I think, a much lower barrier to enter financially. Where should they go?
Trevor Owens [00:30:36]:
They can go to pizza_ ninjas on Twitter. We have, like, links to our get book, our design white paper. And, yeah, on pizza pizza, there's actually gonna be a free airdrop. So we're gonna partner with different entities. So if you wanna get in on it, you know, tell your, whatever project or community you're part of to come contact us. And, yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. So you can go to it at pizza_ninjas, also at pizza_pets. And, yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:31:04]:
Follow me at t o, and hope you, hope you like what real thing.
Josh Kriger [00:31:07]:
Alright. Thanks, brother. Cheers.
Richard Carthon [00:31:11]:
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Josh Kriger [00:31:42]:
Hi, everyone. Josh Krieger, of Edge AI at NFT Lisbon. Shout out to Pizza Ninjas for bringing us to this amazing event with all sorts of leaders in the blockchain space. And it's my pleasure to be with the co CEOs of Hub, Randy Zuckerberg and Debbie Soon. How are you guys?
Debbie Soon [00:32:02]:
I am doing amazing. It's amazing to be here in Lisbon. Randi?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:32:06]:
Yes. Little jet lagged but loving the energy of the event.
Josh Kriger [00:32:11]:
You guys both came from the US to Lisbon?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:32:14]:
Yep. I came from New York and
Debbie Soon [00:32:16]:
and I came from Miami.
Josh Kriger [00:32:18]:
Cool. And I flew in, from Washington DC. Also jet lagged, did a red eye. I'm riding on Kelley, really good coffee, which is definitely a thing here, fortunately. But we're all smiling. What brought you all to Lisbon? I mean, why make the trip?
Debbie Soon [00:32:38]:
Yeah. I mean, this is an amazing NFT, an amazing city, I Kelley, to have a conference of any AI. Let alone, a conference about web 3, celebrating, you know, creativity and artists that are doing really crazy and innovative things, at the NFT line of this new technology. So, it's in Lisbon. So how to say no?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:33:00]:
Totally. Mostly for me, I just take any opportunity to hang out with Debbie in person. Even though we're building a company together, we're in different cities. So the opportunity to spend AI. But also we've met so many artists that are on Hug in person at this event for the first time. And that's always so rewarding for me. As you know, when someone comes up and they're like, we're, you know, we're building our business and our community on hug. And it's like it feels really, it's proud.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:33:27]:
It's awesome.
Josh Kriger [00:33:28]:
That's really cool. I thought you just came to sing the we're all gonna make a song with Trevor. I thought that was really
Randi Zuckerberg [00:33:35]:
That is. I mean, that is the main reason that I traveled here. But, you know, also to see some artists.
Josh Kriger [00:33:42]:
Quick aside for our audience, there'll be some b roll of this, but Randy didn't know it. But I I told Trevor that I was gonna interview Randi and Debbie NFT, and he made a special request. And since he brought me out here, Randy was nice enough to oblige, and that'll be some fun content that we'll share with the audience as well. So, ladies, tell us a little bit more about Hug and sort of how your original vision of Hug has evolved with this sort of dynamic Web 3 times.
Debbie Soon [00:34:16]:
Yeah. I guess I will kick it off and say that our mission and vision for Hug has never really changed. Like our mission has always been clear from day 1 and that is to help artists become successful entrepreneurs. And I would say maybe how it has evolved is more of the sequencing or in terms of how we would help them get to that place, but it has never really cut away from that from that mission.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:34:38]:
Totally. Yeah. I think, you know, it's a lot of artists there, they have full time jobs. And, and there's a lot of work that's on an artist to have a storefront and social media. They're they're a CEO. They're a marketer. And so everything that we build at HUG is just how do we make an artist's life easier? How do we get them closer to a sale and to their community, with less work on the artist part? So, whether they are selling prints or scarves or NFT, it's, you know, how do we give them more time to do what they do?
Josh Kriger [00:35:15]:
Cool. Kelley, what are some of the KPIs that you look at, just to bring back my consulting hat? Because like at the end of the day, you know, it's about results, right? We're all trying to like onboard and create value in this space. What are some of the results that you all are particularly excited about that Hug has sort of been able to achieve in terms of artists, types of artists, geographic NFT, all all those types of things?
Debbie Soon [00:35:44]:
Yeah. That's such a great question. So I mean obviously we look at AI in our community and you know, we've grown. You know, I think when we first started we were a 100 people in our community and now we've got over NFT. 15,000 of them, are artists, are creators themselves. So, that's been really, really exciting to see. And then I think more importantly, we've always wanted to have a really diverse and inclusive community. So we have representation across 160 countries, across all sorts of, you know, different types of identities, different mediums.
Debbie Soon [00:36:16]:
We wanted and, you know, that's why it was called Hug. I think very inspired by Randy's sunny personality, but we wanted people to feel at home.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:36:25]:
Yeah. We've always wanted to create a space where people could be seen. And, Debbie just shared some of these stats on the main stage, but we've placed over a 1000 artists into galleries and exhibitions around the world. Wow. And we've given out over $200,000 in grants to artists, since we've launched. So, that's the kind of thing that gets me out of bed in the morning.
Josh Kriger [00:36:49]:
Well, you know, as I sort of reflect on the conversations I've had here with other guests and on the panel I moderated in what you NFT, I think that fundamentally, culture on chain is such a critical aspect of our space at this point. And it's sort of been interwoven into every L1, every L2. Like things are pretty boring in life without art, right? And so I guess what's your sort of vision on how we can keep this sort of aspect, the culture aspect of blockchain alive and well. In good times and bad NFT. Because it hasn't been as easy for artists the last year as it was the prior year. So what do you think we do as a community to make art a more sustainable driving force, with technology?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:37:50]:
Kelley, I think the first thing is that it's a great question by the way. And I think the first thing is that we can't keep Web 3 siloed off. It's just not big enough or mainstream enough to have enough collectors and buyers for artists. So, that's why at Hug, we are really trying to build a multi modal platform where even art collectors who don't know anything about NFTs or don't want to yet, can still buy from an artist and support an artist. But I also think education is so key. Educating artists on AI tools, educating them on everything that's going on and keeping them up to date with technology in a way that, you know, makes them feel empowered and not overwhelmed, I think is a Edge, facet of what we're building too.
Debbie Soon [00:38:37]:
Yeah. I would just agree with everything you say obviously. I think I'll just add on that. Yeah. It's it's I
Randi Zuckerberg [00:38:42]:
think it's very easy to
Debbie Soon [00:38:43]:
be like, oh, you know, there needs to be a certain kind of culture on chain. But, what we've discovered in our experience is that at the end of the day, artists are creative at heart and they connect with each other based on what they create. I think technology obviously allows them to do things that they may not have been able to do before. Right? Like dynamic NFTs, I AI, are a great example where you can say and do so much more of your art because of that technology. But I think at the heart of it, they really are just there to get their work seen, to make them money doing, from doing things that they love. And the more that we can do to AI is to bring audiences both on chain and off chain together, and that's kind of the reason why we're all meeting in person. Right? Like, Brady and I met online. That's the power of Web 3.
Debbie Soon [00:39:28]:
Yeah. I I mean, I didn't meet my
Josh Kriger [00:39:30]:
one of my co AI for 6 months into the company. We actually met when we did our first live podcast together while sitting on the bed in a hotel room at NFT New York. Yeah. So AI, I can totally relate to that unique sort of combination of IRL and digital and how do you bring them together. And you guys do a lot of community events, at different conferences around as well. Right?
Debbie Soon [00:39:57]:
Yeah. I I guess we normally do, I guess one big event, a year, mostly around New York City. Although I feel like we need to try and branch out a little bit from that. Tell it. Yeah. But we had our 1st ever Hug Fest, I guess, last month. So that was incredible. We had, I think 700 over 700 people show up on the day.
Debbie Soon [00:40:17]:
We had dozens of artists that were selling their work at Hookfest. It was kind of like an artist market. And I think that was another great example where half of the artists in the room were very familiar with NFT. The other half were NFT. But they had a great time meeting and meeting each other and, you know, connecting with each other over to your work.
Josh Kriger [00:40:35]:
That's great. And I guess, are there NFT, like, interesting recent drops that artists have done on your platform that are worth sort of shouting out. Obviously, I don't wanna say, you know, favorite this or, most excited about this because all the projects that are on your platform are also all important. But any recent artist drops that are worth mentioning?
Debbie Soon [00:40:58]:
Yeah. I could share about Eathan Sams. So Leah Sams is one of our artists. She's a British Malaysian artist. She actually just launched her very first fashion collection Oh, cool. On hug. And her fashion collection items have dresses like these, scarves, and they are each paired with a NFC chip. So, that unlocks AI a digital experience and we're very excited to, you know, help her bring that collection to life on a platform.
Josh Kriger [00:41:24]:
That's cool. I just went to G Money's pop up, and I have some of his NFC chip shirts. And I think that's great where, you know, for those that don't know, you can just scan the chip and be connected to that. It's sort of like a cooler fashionable version of a poa. Right?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:41:41]:
I love that. I think that's I mean, that's totally the future where we're going. And this isn't a specific artist drop per se, but I'm really excited that we're launching, commerce and storefronts on Hug. And I expect that about half the artists will enable crypto payments and be selling NFT. And the other half AI, like, have nothing to do with NFTs or we're encouraging them to add on a digital download after purchase. And that hopefully, we'll start to see a world where we start slowly educating consumers and, and bringing them over to
Josh Kriger [00:42:15]:
to being more crypto native. That's really awesome. So will individual stores do their own shipping and fulfillment, and you all are providing the primary storefront AI, sort of a Shopify experience for Web 3?
Debbie Soon [00:42:29]:
Yeah. Well, I guess Yeah. Yes. It's like a Shopify experience of Web 3. But I think the great thing about what we're doing is that we are providing artists with a range of different options for them. So, there is an option for them to ship their own items, like even commission. So we have another artist called Sarah Baumann who launched commission, Air Force 1 sneakers and handbags. So she's doing the shipping and fulfillment herself.
Debbie Soon [00:42:51]:
But we're also helping artists who maybe don't want to invest in inventory, you know, a variety of print on demand options so they could sell their own merchandise and prints, and then also Of as well as digital downloads that are not on chain. So however an artist can monetize their craft, we want to encourage them to do so.
Josh Kriger [00:43:09]:
Very cool. And when is it launching?
Debbie Soon [00:43:12]:
Well we already have a whole bunch of storefronts live but we're going to have a much wider rollout and release, sometime at the end of June.
Josh Kriger [00:43:19]:
Exciting. And where do folks go if they wanna check out some of the awesome merch?
Debbie Soon [00:43:24]:
You can go to the hug.xyz AI everything is there.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:43:27]:
Everything is there.
Josh Kriger [00:43:27]:
Awesome. Cool. Is there anything else sort of you all wanted to sort of share as we wrap up this conversation? Just in terms of your aspirations for the industry over the next few years, where you think you are at this moment, where do we go next?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:43:46]:
Yeah. You know, I I, based on my own experience being on the front lines of Web 2, there was a very similar period for where for a few years, there was kind of this messy middle where I like that. You know, there were like these early adopters who were all in on Web 2 and social media, but mainstream, who were all in on Web 2 and social media, but mainstream hadn't quite caught up yet and was a little skeptical. And, it's inevitable. It's inevitable that we're headed to a world where things like NFTs are becoming mainstream, but we're just we're we're in that messy middle right now. And, so I think I'll love that.
Josh Kriger [00:44:21]:
The term decor, but it really does sort of fit.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:44:25]:
Yeah. AI, you know, it's exciting for all of us to be on the front lines and, I just hope that a lot of the entrepreneurs and artists that we see can kind of tough it out and stick with the industry, and still be here when it gets good.
Josh Kriger [00:44:40]:
Cool. Any, any updates on the, like, we're all gonna make it a song? Like, you know, Adam Sandler had, like, you know, multiple versions of the Hanukkah song. Like, we're gonna have to do another remix.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:44:53]:
I know we might have to do a remix. Although we were already brainstorming, it was an ordinary song. So you never know. You never know when the next one's gonna drop or what it's gonna be about. You know, you gotta keep the people on their toes.
Josh Kriger [00:45:05]:
Okay. A little alpha. A little alpha. Debbie, anything else you wanted to share?
Debbie Soon [00:45:10]:
Yeah. You know, I think I'll add. I I I feel like Josh is kind to both sides. I feel like, like Randy said , we almost kind of get a tendency to be a little siloed where it's like it's a very us versus them mentality when it comes to Web 3 or non Web 3. You know, my hope is that for all of us who are early adopters and are part of the Web 3 community, that we can be as welcoming to folks that have NFT the space and remember what it was like when we wanted that experience when we were new. Otherwise, I feel like we're very close to becoming gatekeepers which was exactly what people didn't want web 3 to be. So I think that's kinda my wish. And then I would say to the folks that are, you know, maybe newer to the technology or haven't quite experienced it, to be curious and maybe a little less skeptical.
Debbie Soon [00:45:56]:
Like, I feel like a lot of the time we speak to artists that are not in Web 3. And even before we've even said a word, they are on their AI and say no NFTs. And, that's just from, you know, I think Josh not really understanding what the technology is. So I hope that we can get across the messy middle where we're not even talking about web 3, On Chain, like, you know, as why people say On Chain is the new online and it will just be as it'll be just natural for everyone.
Josh Kriger [00:46:23]:
Cool. Well, this was such an honor to finally have you both on the show and to learn more about what Hug has been up to since you all supported the very first NFT back in the day. A lot's happened, a lot more growth to come. So thank you both for your time today. Kelley appreciates it. Thank you.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:46:46]:
We're all gonna make it. Yeah. We're all gonna make it. We're all gonna make it, everyone. Yes. Thank you, Ruiz. Let's go. AI.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:01]:
Oh, no.
Trevor Owens [00:47:02]:
Yeah. Thank you. Wow. Okay. A dream achieved.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:06]:
I love it. You were crushed by it. I think you have a feature on Broadway.
Trevor Owens [00:47:09]:
I think you know. I tried. Yeah. I tried. Maybe yeah. I think I need a little more training.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:14]:
No. Josh, like, one one more coaching session.
Trevor Owens [00:47:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On Sunday.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:18]:
Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Awesome. Amazing. Cool. Is there any other b roll or anything you wanna gather?
Trevor Owens [00:47:24]:
No. I think that's good. Alright.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:26]:
Oh, yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:47:26]:
I love it. Thank you for your time.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:27]:
No. We're we're, like, 1 of 1 takes longer.
Trevor Owens [00:47:30]:
Yeah. I know. If you know the next song, you know, like, let me know. Like, we should do it together.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:36]:
AI I I that would be my dream. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Trevor Owens [00:47:38]:
If you if you would honor me, me, you know, to be That
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:40]:
would be so fun.
Trevor Owens [00:47:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know?
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:43]:
So Alright. Let's play. Let's play. If you have, like, a favorite song or or something that you think is, like, parody involved, but Okay. Let's
Trevor Owens [00:47:51]:
Okay. I will come back to you with, like, like, an idea.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:54]:
Yeah. Because if we haven't I haven't done anything about, like, ordinals or big boy or really anything.
Trevor Owens [00:47:58]:
Oh, you wanna do it on big
Randi Zuckerberg [00:47:59]:
boy? Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:48:00]:
Are you serious?
Trevor Owens [00:48:01]:
Okay. You, I will seriously give this to, like, 200%.
Debbie Soon [00:48:05]:
Amazing. If you want and you do it.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:48:07]:
I'm in. I'm in.
Trevor Owens [00:48:08]:
Okay. Alright. Alright. Alright. Chris, We're gonna do we're gonna do an ordle song.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:48:13]:
I know. Yeah. I feel like AI,
Trevor Owens [00:48:17]:
Chris, by the way.
Randi Zuckerberg [00:48:18]:
Yes. Oh, good to meet you. Thank you. There's a Duranda Duranda song called Ordinary Of. In fact, maybe that's, like, trying to be a ordinal, you know
Trevor Owens [00:48:28]:
I will have a I will
Randi Zuckerberg [00:48:28]:
have a song called Ordinary Loves. Yeah. Ordinary Loves.
Trevor Owens [00:48:37]:
I will write a song on it.
Richard Carthon [00:48:38]:
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Josh Kriger [00:49:06]:
What's up, everyone? This is Josh Krieger, cohost of Edge of NFT. I am living in Lisbon at the NFT Jeff conference. Actually, we're at the Ordinals Lisbon stage, and this roadshow is powered by Pizza Ninja. Shout out to those guys for bringing Edge of NFT over to Europe. It's, I'm excited to be here and excited to hang out with an LA guy.
Josh Kriger [00:49:27]:
I know. We came a long way from home, but Lisbon's beautiful. It feels like California to be honest, but nicer people.
Josh Kriger [00:49:34]:
Absolutely. So I have Butoshi with me. And, full disclosure. I met this fine NFT at an AI Alpha event in LA. And I I I minted. So, you know, there is a relationship there, but this is not a sponsorship partnership. Just a big fan of what you do, man. Maybe you can kind of give everyone a little bit of background on yourself and how you got into the space.
Josh Kriger [00:49:58]:
I got you. What's up y'all? I'm Butoshi. It's really simple. I was an Eathan NFT Jeff when COVID started. I finished high school, went through this whole journey. Every sneaker kid makes their way to NFT somehow. Ethereum happened. Did that for 2 years.
Josh Kriger [00:50:13]:
Market completely breaks. Then order notes came out and I was like, oh my god. This is the best thing in the world. This is an opportunity a lot of people are waiting for for their entire life. So I dedicated my whole life to it. And I have been here for 1 year. We're currently at the ordinals Lisbon event, which is a fantastic event set up by AI Ninjas. Shout out, Trevor.
Josh Kriger [00:50:30]:
And it's just really cool to see the amount of people in Europe interested in ordinals and kind of been going around traveling around the world. And the vast interest in ordinals, AI, has been rapidly growing, and it's just insane to see. So right here, let's talk
Josh Kriger [00:50:42]:
about that. Yeah, man. So that's a bold statement. The biggest opportunity of a lifetime. Right? And Live by that. Die by that. So walk us through sort of how you came to that conclusion. You know, why is Ordinals different from all the other opportunities to, like, mint or or, do blockchain projects in space?
Josh Kriger [00:51:05]:
I got you. It's fairly simple. So for me, I was in Ethereum and everyone if you remember the 2021 bull run was insane. It was AI, mint whatever you want. NFTs absolutely blew up. We saw board aids run up to, like, nearly half a $1,000,000 floor price. And that entire run basically proved one statement, and that one statement is that collectibles on blockchain are valuable. Whether or not the market lasts, collectibles in humanity as a whole have always been valuable when it comes to baseball cards, Pokemon cards, especially, like sneakers, which is where I, like, made a lot in terms of living early on COVID.
Josh Kriger [00:51:40]:
And just that whole thing is okay. One fact is that humans like collecting things. Humans like spending absurd amounts of money when it comes to collecting things that they find valuable. And when it comes to Ethereum NFTs, they're like, wow. JPEGs on blockchain that I could own, even though we could right click save that. Doesn't matter. I own it verifiably on the blockchain. And blockchain technology is just a fantastic technology that we had presented to us when Bitcoin came out in 2009.
Josh Kriger [00:52:04]:
A funny thing is we didn't have any digital collectibles on Bitcoin when it came out in 2009 AI, though it is the mother of all blockchains, is daddy Bitcoin. And when order notes came out for the first time in 14 years, Bitcoin and the ecosystem had a full opportunity to have a fully on chain ecosystem for the first time ever. So I saw that as the greatest opportunity and just lived by my conviction and built out the space even though there was nothing. We traded on spreadsheets, and now we have marketplaces. Now we have bigger exchanges coming in and basically listing ruins. And there's a lot going on in the span of a year, and it feels like the development of space Josh rapidly progressed since then.
Josh Kriger [00:52:44]:
Cool. So Josh played devil's advocate for a moment, apes are at 12 earth now. If I didn't, I would have predicted that type of downward movement. You know, in the depth of the bear market, they were, I think, still trading around 80, $90,000. But now they're much, much lower than that.
Josh Kriger [00:53:04]:
I think Hugo messed up because they really diluted their entire ecosystem, especially Eathan the other deeds dropped. And it was AI, if we pay NFT, other deeds happened, it was mass, mass amounts of burned, AI, 1,000,000 and millions of e burn and gas just to mint that drop. And it just really diluted their ecosystem, and NFT, it just fizzled out because it couldn't handle all of that.
Josh Kriger [00:53:25]:
But but I guess there's a broader point AI was sort of making where you look at sort of NFTs in the world of Ethereum and Base and Avalanche, and they have not necessarily even held their value in this sort of, quote, bull market, yet the ordinals, ruins are doing quite well at the moment. Why do you think this is a more sustainable movement long term?
Josh Kriger [00:53:51]:
So I think it's a more sustainable movement long term. And, like, two simple reasons is number 1, it's on Bitcoin. So in terms of on chain value like, you listed later twos on Ethereum. Those were layer twos on top of a layer one, which is Ethereum. I don't think those would ever hold value. But the second interesting thing is that it's actually truly immutable. Like, the data that we upload is permanently on chain. It's forced to be on chains.
Josh Kriger [00:54:14]:
It can't be erased off the chain. It can't be censored. And because of Casey, we developed or he developed a protocol in which, yo, we could actually track data that we upload on Bitcoin attached in the stats, and now we have this tradable ecosystem where I could just send you an order note on chain without any improvements or additions or layer twos on Bitcoin. So I think the most valuable aspect is that it is a layer 1 fully on chain protocol that allows that trading. Fundamentally immutable by design. By Bitcoin's design. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:54:43]:
No. I mean, I I I you have a good point. I wanted to sort of hear your perspective on it because a lot of people ask me that question as well and, you know, I I I think everyone's sort of excited about the potential here, but also, you know, concerned about the long term trends that have been part of our ecosystem. So when we talk about sort of the next steps with the Bitcoin ecosystem, ordinals and runes, What do people need to be paying attention to? How does someone jump in at this moment in time today based on the happening, what's already happened, you know, ruins or have long
Josh Kriger [00:55:19]:
Are you asking, like, how would I get involved in the ecosystem of what is the best play we could do right now in this current moment?
Josh Kriger [00:55:25]:
I I think I will move on. I think both. Right? Because I think it's the latter, the best play, but it's also about sort of using that as an entree to getting in into the whole movement, learning more about runes, getting excited. Obviously, you know, it's a little boring to just trade. Right? In my opinion, you may as well, like, get involved.
Josh Kriger [00:55:45]:
But Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:55:46]:
But let's sort of start with the trader perspective. How do you get involved? What do you do next if you're learning more about rooms you wanna explore?
Josh Kriger [00:55:52]:
So if you would like to get involved in the whole ecosystem in general, I recommend downloading Xpress Wallet. It's a Chrome extension. I would say that's one of the best wallets. Right. Right. It's dope. The second thing is I would follow people on Ordinals Twitter. I'm sure there's some kinda AI link or a list of people that you could follow to really fill your feet up with ordinals and kinda see the news that's there, like, happening daily, what people are talking about when it comes to ordinals.
Josh Kriger [00:56:17]:
And
Josh Kriger [00:56:18]:
So follow you, but who else do you follow?
Josh Kriger [00:56:21]:
Everyone. I follow Trevor. I follow Leonidas. I follow Jearn because Jearn does really good at basically recapping ordinals. I follow Big God. We do a show every Thursday where we recap the week and recap new technical innovations that come out. And I would say as you start following these people, you'll just see more and more people fill your AI. If they're interesting, it was just shoot follows.
Josh Kriger [00:56:41]:
Kinda AI embed yourself in that. When it comes to learning, I would say there's multiple things. There's a lot of articles and blog posts out when you actually, like, really wanna learn the ecosystem. I've even contributed to that by making an AI bot in which like chat gbt, you just talk to the AI bot. I trained it on everything regarding ordinals and runes. Still improving it daily, but I have a lot to do. I have a basic question. How can I get the answer? Just ask, and it comes up with a pretty dope response instantly.
Josh Kriger [00:57:07]:
So there's a lot. Just explore, I would say. Cool. And any, particular ruins that you're excited about at
Josh Kriger [00:57:13]:
the moment? I'm very excited for Wanko Manko ruins. I think it's an absolutely left curve to generate a meme that pisses a lot of people off, and that brings me a lot of joy. And the second thing is mostly because it's the first room that KC approved. So without getting, like, too deep into the lore, KC wrote this story on his blog a long time ago. We saw that, and we were like, oh my god. This is a really perfect meme. It's, like, so out of pocket that it would work. And when we launched the meme coin or when the AI team basically etched the room and we started talking about it on Spaces, Kelley ended up retweeting it and tweeting about it and reposting our post about it.
Josh Kriger [00:57:52]:
And I was like, holy fuck. It just got Casey's stamp. That's nuts. So that's one thing I'm excited for. I'm really excited for epic, epic, epic, epic. That is a rune that's inscribed on the epic set that was actually mined during the recent Bitcoin having. I think that one will be really interesting because it's gonna be the first rune that has cooperation between the east, which is China, and the west. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [00:58:12]:
And I find that one very interesting because we don't really see a bid on ruins when it comes from China. China loved the BRC twenties. There are posts where there are literally conventions of elderly Chinese people learning how to trade BRC NFT. Wow. And a lot of the liquidity from the BRC twenties came from the Chinese market.
Josh Kriger [00:58:31]:
Set up
Josh Kriger [00:58:31]:
the Domo. That's cool. So cool. Domo is insane for just bringing the idea of fungible tokens on Bitcoin. And because of that idea, Casey was like, yo. People clearly want this. There is already market demand. Let's make it more efficient, and that's why Runes came out.
Josh Kriger [00:58:45]:
So I'm really looking forward to those 2 Runes in particular. And I am also loving the activity and community going behind the dog, which Leonidas launched with runestones. And I would say those are, like, my 3 mains that I'm kinda, like, holding. Definitely. Well, if you
Josh Kriger [00:59:00]:
want more alpha, you gotta check out Boo's Twitter feed and probably pick up one of your, one of your Buttoshis. But, you know, I'm in your discord and you're super into AI, which is really cool. Oh, god. I love that. So, we've talked before sort of casually about how we use AI to make our lives better. But let's have a conversation, for the audience a little bit more about the implications of AI on the ordinals movement in particular, and then we can broaden it from there. What are
Josh Kriger [00:59:29]:
your thoughts there? So to kinda start with a general point is that we're reaching this point of, I would say, exponential expansion when it comes to technology and AI where it's like, bro, 2 years ago, we didn't really have chat gbt. We didn't have text to image generations where I could just type whatever I want and get a beautiful AI generated image. This is all new technology and it's AI like we have. AI improves our lives. I have, like, AI secretaries, AI assistance, AI tooling, AI coding that really advances my workflow. I would say at least, like, minimum NFT x. Like, I'm 10 x more efficient because of my integration of AI. I think when it comes to integrating ordinals in AI, I would say there's more benefit when it comes to equipping the community and equipping creators and founders with AI tooling and with AI technology.
Josh Kriger [01:00:16]:
Because everyone has a vision. Everyone has a creative vision, creative ideas in their head. And how can we bring that vision from our head into our of to an actual product, to an actual thing that we push out there.
Josh Kriger [01:00:34]:
Are we talking about custom NFT? Or, I mean, everyone knows chat tbt, but there are some other simple tools that are easy to, like, onboard that aren't Yeah.
Randi Zuckerberg [01:00:42]:
No. No. No.
Josh Kriger [01:00:42]:
It's cool. So, actually, this is a really, really sick tool, and people could actually use this to really deeply learn ordinals and runes. It's called perplexity dot AI, and what that is is basically an AI powered search engine. So how it works is like AI gbt. You just ask it a question, and it will actually search the Internet for official sources. So AI searches Google. You could have it set to search academic papers. You could have it set to search up Reddit for, like, casual discussion.
Josh Kriger [01:01:07]:
Oh, no. And so you could ask these questions. Pick the focal point.
Josh Kriger [01:01:10]:
Search x? That would be cool.
Josh Kriger [01:01:12]:
I don't think you could search x, but that would be insane. I think the API is too much, but it's definitely possible. I would like to see an upgrade. It's fairly new as well. But, like, I use this tool every single day so much, and I mostly use it for research because it advances research so quickly. I have a question about something. I'll type it in. I'll get an answer, and I just go on this rabbit hole where I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
Josh Kriger [01:01:33]:
How does that apply to this? And it just backs everything up with sources. So you're like, okay. The AI is not completely BS ing me. These are actually valid, and you could check the sources yourself. It just makes searching so much easier. So I'll say that's the top tool I would use. Dope, man.
Josh Kriger [01:01:47]:
This has been fun. Before we, let you kinda get back to it, and there's a lot of cool people here to meet up with, what's going on your road map? What are people needing to know with boob boos? In terms of the Bitcoin boost?
Josh Kriger [01:02:01]:
Yeah. So I've had this vision when I was a kid in terms of this video game where you could do whatever you want, literally whatever you want, and there will be consequences based on your actions. And everyone kinda has this AI, similar to the real world. It's like a world sin. People do different actions, and everyone's world kinda, like, entangles with each other somehow, some way. So for Boos, with my AI skills that I developed the past year, I have nearly finished working on the self evolving AI universe. It works similar to a text based game where you could type whatever you want, but it also works like DND where you could level up. You have dice rolls.
Josh Kriger [01:02:37]:
You could die, like, chatting with NPCs. You have combat. I think it'll be really fun in terms of truly bringing the community into the Bu Kingdom into, like, making them tell their own story by just living in it. And as they tell the story, we inscribe that forever on chain, and that becomes the official Bitcoin Booze lore made by the players, for the players, AI forever, and that becomes our history. So that's what I'm working on. I'm excited for that. Alright. That sounds pretty epic, man.
Josh Kriger [01:03:01]:
That's AI awesome. So if people wanna follow you, AI, let's give everyone your x handle.
Josh Kriger [01:03:06]:
Yeah. I would say it's at kingbutoshi. So it's king, b o o t o s h I. That's all. You. Thank you so much, Josh. That's it.
Josh Kriger [01:03:15]:
Hi, everyone. This is Josh Krieger, cohost of Edge of NFT, live at NFT Lisbon. Shout out to Pizza Ninjas for powering this amazing roadshow and getting me back to Lisbon for the first time in 20 years. And I'm here with the other NFT I have to thank for being here. Josh Karp, the founder of NFC Lisbon, and the man of the hour, who's taking a few minutes to hang out with us. John, good to see you, my friend.
Josh Kriger [01:03:40]:
Good to see you, Usos. Thank you for the interview.
Josh Kriger [01:03:43]:
It's such a pleasure to be here. I've had some FOMO the last few years because our events are close together and my travel schedule hasn't allowed me to be here, but I've heard nothing but good things. And I really appreciate how you Kelly brought the artist community from Europe and globally, to the event. Kelley told me a little bit about your vision for this year's event and some of the unique things that you did differently this year, including this sort of separate stages and whatnot?
Josh Kriger [01:04:16]:
Yeah. I can actually, you know, maybe talk a bit about my background, I'm an event organizer. So I think this is maybe, you know, why I'm very experienced on this topic because I've been organizing a 1000 Josh events the last 10 years with my agency called hackathon.com. And so, basically, we started in 2010 organizing hackathons, mainly for tech companies, first in the US, like Facebook, Microsoft, Samsung, Google, stuff like that. And then we extended this concept of hackathons to also any kind of Fortune AI company. So luxury, NVH, bank industry, retail, energy, whatever. And so we've been working with the top AI, yeah, the top 500 companies in the world, and it was a product for them to innovate, by the way. And, you know, basically with the concept of doing in 2 days what you don't do in 6 months.
Josh Kriger [01:05:18]:
Yeah. By the way, I've planned a couple hackathons. And, like, they're some of the hardest, most complicated events in space. And if you've done a hackathon, you can do anything.
Josh Kriger [01:05:27]:
But this is exactly why I'm doing the NFT conference. Every time people tell me you should do a hackathon, I say, no way. I'm better with
Josh Kriger [01:05:34]:
No. No. No. Like, hackathons are a lot, yeah.
Josh Kriger [01:05:37]:
Yeah. For me, it's easier to organize this than to organize hackathons.
Josh Kriger [01:05:41]:
AI, I would rather organize a 5,000 person conference than a AI person hackathon any day.
Josh Kriger [01:05:47]:
This is why, you know, actually yeah. Before the interview, we mentioned we organized the Guinness Book's biggest hackathon in the world. 3,000 people in Saudi Arabia. It's maybe my worst base memory, you know, memory in the world that and yeah. I will, I will talk about it one day. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [01:06:05]:
We could, you know, need to start a therapy group for event AI to deal with all of our post traumatic stress.
Josh Kriger [01:06:12]:
Yeah. I have Kelley. You know, I have 2 or 3 events in my life. 1 is in San Francisco for Dreamforce. That was my client. One was in India, for Salesforce again. And the other one was this event from Saudi Arabia. Yeah.
Josh Kriger [01:06:26]:
It's true that they were AI, you know, even when you don't sleep for 3 days. It's happening, you know. Last year, NFC was the same. You know, we are pretty ambitious, and we've talked about the stages, actually. But just to come back to the topic, yeah. So I've been experiencing it, but I've been working a lot with corporate. And it was always that agency model, you know, selling Haggis but with an expertise, where it's not only events, but it's also knowledge about the topic that they want to talk about that are mainly always the same in the innovation world. They've been the same for the last 15 years.
Josh Kriger [01:07:00]:
AI, blockchain, immersive technologies. Always these things. It's always like cycles, you know, that happens. And so Of Events bringing them on. And at the end of the day, COVID happened. And you know, I think a lot of us had this COVID momentum, where you step back and you start to work on what's going on. And I was tired because I was running the agency. We had AI 100 people, half in the US, half in Europe.
Josh Kriger [01:07:29]:
And so I start to be tired and say I told my partner, I want to step back. And so it took, like, some AI, but, no. Yeah. I'm not active in the company anymore. And, because I discovered NFT at the same time, I made money from it.
Josh Kriger [01:07:47]:
Once you get bitten by the NFT bug, the AI lasts forever.
Josh Kriger [01:07:53]:
Yeah. You start. You collect. You are a bit earlier than everybody else. So even if you are stupid, you know, you make money. And so, yeah, it happened like this. I want you to jump into that. And at this moment, I started a bit like you, actually.
Josh Kriger [01:08:10]:
AI I Kelley, you know, we started a clubhouse one week before people sold 17,000,000. So it's the same. It was the first French content on a daily basis in the clubhouse. So very fast, we got a community. And, then we start to have, every day, more people joining. And as I had this Eathan background, I started to organize meetups all around in Europe. And from that, I created 2 main projects, always about communities. 1 is in Paris called NFT Factory.
Josh Kriger [01:08:41]:
That is a home gallery, with 130 different founders who are keeping people from the ecosystem.
Josh Kriger [01:08:48]:
You're the creator of that project as Kelley. Yeah. I'm the president. I I I alright. I'm learning new things about you. I've heard nothing but good things about NFT Factory as well.
Josh Kriger [01:08:58]:
It's actually I'm the president, but it's a collective project where 130 people who invested, who take time to handle the project. So I initiated it. I raised funds for this. I'm still president of it, but I'm not the most active in the project right now.
Josh Kriger [01:09:17]:
Well, you have to sort of empower the community in Paris. Right?
Josh Kriger [01:09:21]:
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. At the same time, I was attending a lot of events. Mainly at this time, it was east NFT, east Paris, east Denver, whatever. It was awesome. I love that. But when I was explaining that my stuff was NFTs because I feel like I'm part of this NFT generation.
Josh Kriger [01:09:45]:
I was not crazy about DeFi. I was not really deep into Bitcoin. It's really like NFTs that bring me. And so when I was talking about NFT, all the people say, it was not really that stuff. Yeah. Like the technology, but it's still JPEG. And so it's okay. At this moment, I say I need to do something in Europe for people who have the same interest, you know, who believe that culture is basically the thing that is game changing in the crypto world, and that would bring crowds.
Josh Kriger [01:10:21]:
And when we say culture, art, fashion, gaming, music, eventually, everything related, you know, to this creative industry NFT Jeff. Sorry. I'm showing something that you don't see
Josh Kriger [01:10:35]:
on the camera. He's showing the pizza ninja PFPs. I'm on pizza ninja hold.
Trevor Owens [01:10:41]:
AI
Josh Kriger [01:10:41]:
you know, they got me.
Josh Kriger [01:10:45]:
They're compelling.
Josh Kriger [01:10:47]:
Yeah. To be honest, I started to work with Trevor on this event and so Yeah.
Josh Kriger [01:10:51]:
2 months ago, I heard that he shared the story in the show. So, let's get a little bit more specific. You know, what are sort of the major themes of this year's NFT, from a content perspective that's different from last year. Because I think as event AI, these themes are a little bit of a signal of how the industry is evolving. So what are the themes that have emerged this year that might have even surprised you that you wouldn't have predicted 6 months ago?
Josh Kriger [01:11:22]:
You know, I think not so many things were predicted 6 months ago. You know, I think NFT, to be honest, we started as our NFT event. But, you know, we are in an industry that is extremely moving. You know, we always say that, you know, 1 month in crypto is 1 year in real life blah blah blah blah blah. And so at the end of the day, you know, between one event and the other event 1 year later, it's like a century that just happens. So, you know, if 2 years ago it was super good to do a NFT only NFT, 2 years later, we know crypto is going better, but NFTs, you know, the crowd into this world, I will not say that it's bad, but for sure it's not growing.
Josh Kriger [01:12:12]:
AI you know, Randy Zuckerberg was just on the show and she called that the current moment the messy middle. Like it's the middle innings where it's like you don't know who's gonna win, what the score will be. Some people are bored, some people are AI. The messy middle. Exactly.
Josh Kriger [01:12:30]:
Exactly. We don't know right now. But what we know is that for me, there are other communities where I can find this spirit that I saw in 2021 with NFTs. And I can see this energy in the ordinals community. I can see this energy in the meme token community.
Josh Kriger [01:12:51]:
That's true. Yeah. So you wanted to bring those into the fold?
Josh Kriger [01:12:54]:
I am AI. I said, yeah. And how to integrate them? And, you know, I can not know all these ordinals projects. I'm super bullish on ordinals, but I cannot be as active as I used to be, you know, for some of you, you know.
Josh Kriger [01:13:10]:
Well now that I finished my conference and you NFT yours, you I I've caught up. So for the last month, I've been catching up. So, we'll talk. We'll talk. I'll catch you up because it's really impossible to go deep into ordinals and plan an event at the same time. But once this event is over, you'll become part of the Pizza Ninja community. You'll you'll you'll get the alpha on their Discord, and you'll be caught up in
Josh Kriger [01:13:35]:
This is what I told them. You know, after the events, I will be there. But that's but so yeah. You and this is why the idea for me was to integrate other event organizers to do their own NFT in the same area. And this is why we came up with this concept of 1 ticket, 5 events. It started actually, you know, 6 months ago with these guys from Meme Con. They told me, John, we would love to organize a big side event called around meme tokens. It was 6 months ago.
Josh Kriger [01:14:10]:
We already had the feeling that there was a new narrative around that.
Josh Kriger [01:14:14]:
You're like, don't do a side event. Come to the main event.
Josh Kriger [01:14:17]:
As the guys
Josh Kriger [01:14:18]:
Let's work together.
Josh Kriger [01:14:20]:
Exactly. And so yeah. And so it's okay. Let's AI an agreement so we can integrate you into the event, basically. And so it started like this. And when I see energy like this, I say, yeah. Okay. That's something interesting.
Josh Kriger [01:14:34]:
I was already in touch with Trevor for all the models, and it was 2 months ago. I just visited and said, hey, let's do an event together.
Josh Kriger [01:14:40]:
And what are the other so there's 5 events in 1. Five events. There's the NFT, the meme coin, the ordinals. And what are the other 2?
Josh Kriger [01:14:47]:
The 2 other ones are not as permanent as the other ones. Ordinals were in a dedicated area where we are right now, a dedicated stage. And the same for Minkorn, dedicated booth, dedicated stage. The first one was an AI movie festival that was organized in the evening. It was like a 3 hour moment. But, you know, we have this immersive main stage that is pretty conceptual where we try to have every 10 minutes a new art show happening, mainly created by artists. But, you know, these organizers, they transform the stage to a kind of glamor Cannes festival area with cabaret tables, with red carpets, with everybody dressed up, you know, with, yeah, suits and bow AI was a little ceremony, you know, with, like, NFT tables and food and wine and something like this on the stage. And they had, like, 10 movies in competition.
Josh Kriger [01:15:44]:
And it was a full gala part yeah. Full gala event. One hour of movie with exclusive of the Kriger moment documentary, Jeff movies of 3 minutes in competitions, A diva singer who has a video clip in AI finishing the show. So it was something really interesting and a new crowd also came thanks to that. And the last event actually is tomorrow. So, you know, we have 2 days of events happening in this exhibition area. And on the last day there are beach parties held by a huge festival music organizer called MOGA Festival. That is pretty famous.
Josh Kriger [01:16:23]:
You have people traveling from all around the world to go to this NFT. And that event is happening actually all weekend. And so there before is our after. And so that forces the crowd to mix. They're organizing 3 parties on different beach areas from 11 AM to 2 AM. And people can go to the different atmosphere, different lineups of NFT DJs and enjoy the parties.
Trevor Owens [01:16:48]:
Very cool. Kelley cool, man.
Josh Kriger [01:16:52]:
Well, thank you, Niu Gan. Thank you. For continuing to evolve this space and push the limits of co creation. You know, we've tried to do similar things with outer edge where we integrated the community with decentralized AI and had different stages and sort of brought all these topics together. Because NFT, what we're dealing with is people that are passionate about the future and making a more interesting AI future using the latest technology, right? And, these people are all over the world and they don't see each other enough. And it's thanks to events like this that everyone can come together.
Josh Kriger [01:17:31]:
Yeah. I think I 100% believe in AI events. I think it's a game changer for everybody. And it's, you're learning about people, You're learning, you're getting faster on projects. You learn about yourself every time. People are a bit moved when they go. AI will recommend to you Eathan NFT, of course, it takes AI, but the regional investment, the personal regional investment is always very strong when you go to these kinds of events.
Josh Kriger [01:17:55]:
Well, you go to NFT Lisbon, AI. But also, where do they follow you guys on Twitter? NFT summit. Nfc summit. Yeah. Alright. Thanks, John. Thanks, Josh. It's a pleasure.
Josh Kriger [01:18:06]:
Thank you very much.
Intro/ Outro [01:18:08]:
The views and opinions expressed on Edge of NFT reflect solely those views and opinions of the show hosts and its guests. Please make sure to do your own research. Our show is not financial advice. You understand that you are using any and all information available on or through this podcast at your own risk. Whenever making financial decisions, we recommend doing your own research and talking to your accountant for financial advice. From time to time, we may feature sponsored content on the show for which we receive value and we may share links for which we receive a commission if you make a purchase through one of those links. Refer to our AI, www.edgeofnft.com Edge our full disclaimer, terms and conditions, and privacy policy AI.
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