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Dive into the cutting-edge world of NFTs and blockchain gaming with industry experts! Hear firsthand from Magic Eden's Nic Santomauro, Shrapnel's Mark Long, Parity's Chrissy Hill, and Agoric's Dean Tribble. Learn about their strategies to revolutionize web 3 gaming, solve industry challenges, and drive mass adoption. Plus, get exclusive insights into their innovative projects and upcoming launches!
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Key Topics Covered:
- Market Strategy and Expansion of Magic Eden: Magic Eden aims to move users from centralized to decentralized spaces by addressing the user experience and security challenges with a seamless cross-chain experience.
- Future of Web 3 Gaming with Shrapnel: Shrapnel is pioneering web 3 gaming by integrating blockchain technologies and focusing on community feedback for game development, with an emphasis on digital ownership and player-created content.
- Polkadot's Ecosystem and Governance Model: Polkadot focuses on fostering a digital economy with interoperability, featuring a strong on-chain governance model and a roadmap that extends beyond short-term innovations to long-term web 3 technology advancements.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- "Now a lot of what we do is side events because we're in this extended ecosystem and the cosmos ecosystem connect to all these chains. But, you know, it pulls people in and into a great town. It's been a great experience." - Dean Tribble (00:40:45 00:40:55)
- "If we wanna reach them in the future in order to have all of this technology that we're doing roll out into all the areas of daily life, we need to be able to have those programmers build this stuff." - Dean Tribble (00:41:29 00:41:37)
- "We've actually been in the JavaScript Standards Committee, some of our people, for 15 years now. They came in precisely to add to JavaScript the elements so that you could do smart contracts. We worked on smart contracts. I worked on the first production smart contract in 1989." - Dean Tribble (00:42:24 00:42:37)
For the full transcript, see further below.
People and Resources Mentioned:
- Nic Santomauro LinkedIn
- Magic Eden Website
- Mark Long LinkedIn
- Shrapnel Website
- Dean Tribble LinkedIn
- Agoric Webiste
- Chrissy Hill LinkedIn
- Parity Technologies Website
Connect With Us:
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About Our Guet 1:
- Bio: Dean Tribble is the co-founder of Agoric, a layer 1 chain based on the Cosmos ecosystem, designed for smart contracts in JavaScript. With a focus on reaching the 15,000,000 developers already familiar with JavaScript, Agoric aims to make it easier for programmers to build new technology. While initially focused on the future, Agoric has found an exciting product market fit in solving near-term challenges with their platform for chain abstraction. Dean's mission is to make it easier for all areas of daily life to benefit from the technology Agoric is developing.
- Website:Agoric
- Twitter: @DeanTribble, @agoric.
- LinkedIn: Dean Tribble
About Our Guet 2:
- Bio: Nic Santomauro is an integral part of Magic Eden, where he serves as the head of growth. His career path led him into the world of AI and NFTs after being introduced to Ethereum by a friend, eventually transitioning to Magic Eden following his time at Binance. Nic is focused on expanding Magic Eden’s reach by developing products and services that address core industry challenges and enhance the user experience in the decentralized space.
- Website:Magic Eden
- Twitter: @MagicEden, @Nsantoma
- LinkedIn:Nic Santomauro
About Our Guet 3:
- Bio: Mark Long is affiliated with Shrapnel, a competitive blockchain-integrated shooter game aiming to redefine web 3 gaming experiences. With a strong community-focused approach, Mark advocates for player-made content and promoting gaming through blockchain technology. He predicts the evolution of web 3 gaming will mirror the shift from paid to free-to-play models, emphasizing digital ownership and community engagement. Shrapnel's roadmap is directed at creating immersive experiences that align with these technological advancements.
- Website:Shrapnel
- Twitter: @marklengthy, @playSHRAPNEL
- LinkedIn: Mark Long
About Our Guet 4:
- Bio: Chrissy Hill represents Parity, where she plays a crucial role in discussing and implementing the Polkadot ecosystem roadmap. Her expertise is in web 3 technology adoption and digital economy inclusion. Chrissy emphasizes the importance of interoperability, governance, and long-term planning within the Polkadot network
- Website:Parity Technologies
- Twitter: @paritytech, @USCHill
- LinkedIn: Chrissy Hill
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Full Episode Transcript:
Richard Carthon [00:00:01]:
Hey, web3 curious friends. Today's episode was shot live in Austin, Texas at NFT. I wanna give a shout out to our 2 sponsors, Laos and Bitlayer. Laos makes NFT trading easy and cost effective, and Bilayer is the 1st Bitcoin security equivalent layer 2 based on bit bmp AI. On today's show, you'll hear from 4 guests. 1st, we have Mark Long to discuss how Shrapnel is an intensely competitive triple a extraction shooter launching on PC in 2025 with early access in 2024. 2nd, we have Chrissy Hill from parity to discuss the road map Polkadot has and why now is a great time to participate in its growing ecosystem. 3rd, we spoke with Nick NFT, the head of growth at Magic Eden, where he discussed why making the strategic choice last year to build a Bitcoin marketplace for ordinals was the right choice.
Richard Carthon [00:00:48]:
Finally, we'll get to hear from the CEO, Dean Tribble, who talks about seamlessly programming multi-chain apps in JavaScript on Upwork. It's time to cue the intro.
Richard Carthon [00:01:00]:
Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast that brings you the top NFT% of web 3 today and what will stand the test of time. We explore the nuts and bolts of the business side and also the human element about web 3 is changing the way we interact with the things we love. This podcast is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers who are pumped about this ecosystem and driving where it goes next.
Richard Carthon [00:01:27]:
Hey, everyone. Richard Carthon here with Edge of NFT. I have a very special guest. We have Mark Long, who is the CEO of Shrapnel here at NFT. And, you know, we're really happy to have you here and learn more about all the amazing things that you guys have been building. I know a year ago I first walked in, there's a gigantic place where you could walk in and play the game. Right. Yeah.
Richard Carthon [00:01:48]:
And a year later, there's just so much more that has happened. So I just wanna start using AI from a year ago when people could come and play the game on NFT, like, what is that look like?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:01:58]:
Well, first of all, that was the first time anybody could play the game, and that's really important to us, like, to let the community have access to the game ahead of anybody else. And it was the first time the public had played the game, and you're very nervous about it. You know, triple development, normally you develop a game in secret for a couple of years, and then you only release it when it's absolutely perfect. So this kind of development we're engaging with the community so much earlier is very, foreign to us, but it's working out great.
Richard Carthon [00:02:30]:
I would agree. I remember playing the game. I was like, there's no way this is web 3. It was like the most polished and high definition and being able to play even multiple players at the same time. And, even being able to go to other places. I remember I I Kelley and I went to Korea. I was able to try it again out there and, like, keep doing the inner, inner, iterations of it. Yeah.
Richard Carthon [00:02:48]:
Yeah. So I know we're getting even closer to AI time with that. But how has the community been helping with providing the feedback and getting it ready to use AI?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:02:58]:
Time. So it's been really interesting. We're doing an early access that I think only 1 or 2 other game companies have done. So our focus is releasing the game for short periods of time like we just did something called shrapnel training exercise 3 over the weekend. We'll put it up for 72 hours, and then you have a survey at the end of that play, and we're able to take direct player feedback. If we put it up 247, then we'd mostly be dealing with people's kind of mundane problems. Like, my kid took my credit card and bought $1,000 worth of, you know, give me my money back kind of thing. Instead, we're only focused on improvements to the gameplay and also stability.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:03:40]:
If the game isn't super stable, then it won't be fun to play. So it's worked out in a really, great way. I think we're getting, you know, we're we're able to I would say the gun feel and camera are just right where we want it to be. And if you play FPSs, you know, if the gun feels off, like, in the first NFT seconds, you'll be like, it just doesn't feel right.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:04:02]:
It doesn't.
Richard Carthon [00:04:03]:
Yeah. I'm a big first person shooter, gamer myself, of the crew. Definitely love gaming. And actually, I wanna take a step back, like, what got you into web 3 gaming? Right? Like, so, obviously, you have a passion for building out amazing games, but why make the transition over to block, blockchain and and and get everything going over there?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:04:19]:
Well, you know, I'm an OG, crypto investor going back to 2014, but I really wasn't evangelized or radicalized by Web 3 until 2020 when another game development company told me what they were doing and how they were raising tokens. And then I heard about Axie Infinity for the first time. And to have a $12,000,000,000 market cap like they did in a game that nobody in regular gaming knew about Josh AI blew my mind. And then as we looked into what blockchain could do, I realized everybody was really kind of going for a money grab instead of really embracing what the technology could do. So for example, in our game, it's a UGC game. Players will be able to make their own content and maps. And if you think about Roblox, you know, kids have made millions of games in Roblox, but they only play, like, 3 or 5. Part of the reason is a kid has no way to promote his own content.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:05:18]:
So we looked at blockchain and saw there would be a novel way to promote, and that is you or I could stake a map that we really love. Like, these guys have a lot of heart. They're making a really cool map. Nobody knows about it. We could get other people to stake against it. And then if the map gets played, we benefit as well. This example of how I think you can bring the community completely in line with the developer. So everybody's trying to make and have the same thing.
Richard Carthon [00:05:46]:
Absolutely. And I like that approach of, one Josh the journey of how you got here and seeing how market caps got as good as they get. But, like, how do you get that stickiness? How do you get that retention? How do you actually get to where anybody coming from web 2 over just is in love with the AI. Right? Yeah. Get all the tokenomics, all the extra stuff, but, like, how do we make a game that we just are fired up about? And, obviously, I've been putting a lot of attention into that. But I wanna say that that train of thought of obviously building and getting so much feedback for this end product that is shrapnel. How have you seen web 3 gaming evolve since you have now entered and been part of creating this?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:06:23]:
So, you know, we were one of the first in 2021 to raise a big round. And now you have a handful of games I'm really excited about. You have off the grid, dead drop, you know, off the grid with Neil Blomkamp. You know, one of my favorite directors is the creative director. You know, with dead drops, you got doctor disrespect as a creative director there. And that guy's bananas, man. And so what he's doing is you could just see it. Like, they're taking big, bold, chances.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:06:53]:
You've got wild Carthon. You've got metalcore. So now there's more than a handful of games that I think we can all be excited about. And then if we're successful, you'll only have more. AI. Right.
Richard Carthon [00:07:06]:
And I think they're coming. And one of the other components of this is, again, I know y'all have been so hyper focused on building a great game, but you also have the really cool blockchain elements. So, like, what are some of those elements that in web 3 gaming that shrapnel offers that your traditional web 2 person might not know what's happening, but they actually are getting access to?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:07:26]:
Well, you know, digital ownership is the thing we most wanna evangelize. Players have been playing with virtual currency. They Kelley used in one game. They're buying items they can't really own. Right? But for us being a UGC title, it's more about player creators making their own content. So you'd be able to make first of all, you can reserve your own gamer tag. You can make your own emblems or patches or details. You'll be able to skin your own characters.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:07:55]:
You Janney already skin, your own weapons. And then NFT, the last thing will be the map tool. So we're taking the Unreal Editor and making it so players can be successful with it. But it's the same version of the editor that we use. You're gonna be able to do incredibly sophisticated things in the map editor. And I think players are ready for it by starting with Minecraft and then aging into Roblox, and then you have Fortnite, you know, e f n. 50% of the content now played by players is made in Fortnite by other players. So but if you turn 18 to 35, there's nothing for you to age into.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:08:35]:
And I just think players are ready to make NFT games at a professional level.
Richard Carthon [00:08:39]:
I think so as well. And I think giving them the option to do so, and not just to do so and rip the benefits of this, the satisfaction of players being able to play it, but actually monetarily being able to do that too as, like, a next step. This is the power of web 3 gaming and what I see coming. But in that same vein, 2024 is already starting off pretty bullish.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:08:58]:
There's a
Richard Carthon [00:08:58]:
a lot of really exciting things are already beginning to occur. But where do you see web 3 gaming, headed as you look out at the rest of this year and into 2025?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:09:07]:
You know, I see a lot of recapitulation in free to play gaming to web 3. When free to play was first when I first saw it in Korea and came back to the United States, I told my business partner, dude, you cannot compete with free. If this thing ever gets out of Asia, it's going to change game monetization completely. And at the same time, the App Store was released, and we were in a discovery phase, AI, our game's 1499 on mobile. Are they 799? Are they 199? And then there was a game called Mega Jump that came out, and it was free. Within 10 months, the entire app store flipped to free to play. That's how fast it happened. And I predict the same thing.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:09:48]:
Once developers see, holy shit, these players playing web 3 AI better. They're more loyal. They're a community that is aligned instead of toxic. The community and the industry will all instantly flip over. The only problem is that because crypto isn't regulated yet, the majors like Microsoft, Sony, and Riot, they can't legally own crypto. And so regulation will be the next phase. But that means independent developers like us have a chance to become the next big publisher developers.
Richard Carthon [00:10:23]:
I agree. I think this is that moment where you can really come in and put your stake in the claim and and and it really set the industry forward. And just going back to your flipping of free to play versus this becoming the norm of being able to have ownership and and and and letting your community really AI. I I think with 3 gaming, once you have these new elements come in, we'll begin to take over as well. You know, obviously, we're here at Consensus. Why did you find shrapnel having a presence here this year so important to everything that's coming, for you this year?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:10:56]:
Well, you know, I really love consensus. It's actually a pretty scholarly conference underneath. The panels and papers and speakers are all really well vetted. So first of all, when you come here, if you attend the panels, you're gonna learn a lot. And then in terms of the United States, there's a lot of crypto conferences, but there's not one that comes together. Like, I liken it to the game developers conference. Like, these are all web 3 developers that show up. And so beyond just making awareness of your tools and services, you're also able to kind of geek out with your fellow d gems.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:11:31]:
Right? And you don't really get a chance to do that except once a year at consensus.
Richard Carthon [00:11:37]:
Yeah. Well, I definitely appreciate it. And I know there's a lot of exciting things happening with shrapnel. So can you tell us a little bit about the road map that is coming out for the rest of the year that you can share?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:11:47]:
Yeah. So we're doing these shrapnel training exercises where, as I described earlier, we bring the game up for a period of time, bring it down. That frequency and duration is gonna increase. So we hope the next exercise will actually be almost a week long and then only a month away. And then after that, we want to move to 2 weeks apart and longer till NFT we go live for a whole week. And then by the end of the year, we wanna go live. But we also, you know, the most important thing of all, you know this instinctively and your audience does too. Game has to be good.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:12:25]:
Yes. Doesn't matter if it's web 3. If it isn't good, the game has to be good. And, you know, the best developers don't really lock themselves into a schedule. They say when the game is ready, we'll release it. But so far, right on track for the end of the year.
Richard Carthon [00:12:40]:
That was exciting. I'm excited to play it. I continue to play it. Round 1 was amazing, and each generation that I've been able to play keeps getting even better. So, Mark, how can people learn more about shrapnel, become part of the community, and be able to follow everything that you got going on?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:12:54]:
Certainly, the best place is, of course, shrapnel.com where you can Edge. And then follow us on Twitter, follow us on Discord. The Discord community is great. Really great community. It's super active, and you'll learn everything about what's going on there.
Richard Carthon [00:13:07]:
Perfect. Well, Mark, thank you for joining us today. Hope you have a good time here at Consensus and look forward to seeing everything that's going on with Shrapnel.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:13:12]:
Yeah. Thank you for having me, Richard. Of course.
Richard Carthon [00:13:16]:
Hey, everybody. Richard Carthon here from the edge of NFT. And we are live on NFT day 2. Been a lot of interesting conversation, meeting a lot of amazing people, but today, we have a special treat for you. We have Chrissy Hill, who is the COO and CLO over at Parity, who's doing incredible things over at Polkadot, and I'm excited to learn more about everything that you have going on. A little fun fact, she is from South AI, but living in London, and has a lot of amazing accents in the household. But I'm glad you're here at Consensus. How's the experience been so far?
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:13:47]:
It's been great. It's electric, actually. And, living in London, this is always a good excuse to get back to this part of the world. AI actually just came from Indianapolis.
Richard Carthon [00:13:57]:
Okay.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:13:58]:
Where a Polkadot sponsored car driven by Connor Kelley, led for 22 laps.
Richard Carthon [00:14:04]:
Yeah.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:14:04]:
So I got to see that, and, I'm here with my 8 year old, actually. So she's gotten to experience a lot of what the US is all about. So it's exciting for her to come and also see what I do.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:14:16]:
Right.
Richard Carthon [00:14:16]:
So Oh, that's incredible. Yeah. Especially when you get to bring the family along and then see everything that's going on and
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:14:21]:
Absolutely. And the Polkadot community is, like, hugely welcoming for people like me and people like her, and she's the youngest Polkadotter.
Richard Carthon [00:14:29]:
Yeah. And that which is extremely cool. And one of the things I really appreciate about Polkadot is your presence, especially at a lot of different events. So, at consensus, if you're not physically here, Polkadot has a really large setup here, all of the different parts of the ecosystem, a lot of showcasing of what's going on. But, obviously, you have a lot of quick facts to share with us. A couple of you dropped in with us, which I think is also great, but then I kinda wanna dive into all the different parts of the ecosystem that makes Polkadot as special as it is.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:14:55]:
Right. So we are the world's largest DAO. We are, the only 10,000,000,000 dollar community where all governance decisions are made on chain and something we're very proud of and has been central to our philosophy, our ethos, and also our regulatory approach, which as the chief legal officer, you know, is very important, for parity and also the wider ecosystem. And the ecosystem has over 600 projects now across Polkadot and Kusama, and Kusama is our canary network. So there's a lot of really interesting developments coming in NFT. We have, you know, we've been focusing on Polkadot 1.0, and Polkadot 2.0 focuses on asynchronous backing, elastic scaling, agile core time, which will make all of these wonderful attributes of Polkadot available to the biggest AI and institutions to the smallest tinkerers. AI I think that's, like, again, really fundamental to what we do. And then in Dubai at 2049 AI 2049, doctor Gavin Wood, who's the chief architect of Polkadot, announced JAM, which is Polkadot 3.0, and that will be here hopefully in the next 2 or 3 years.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:16:12]:
So we've got a really clear road map, and I think, you know, it's a really exciting place to be. Even myself, not as a dev, but as a lawyer and operationally focused, I feel like it's setting us up for the future.
Richard Carthon [00:16:28]:
I agree. So I was at Token as well and heard about that house, and I was like, it's amazing. I was. Oh, wow. So, you know, who knew that it rained in Dubai? But we all find out Did you ever get in
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:16:37]:
one of those shopping carts?
Richard Carthon [00:16:38]:
Oh, so it happened. I can show you videos after this. Really?
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:16:40]:
It was crazy. That's crazy.
Richard Carthon [00:16:42]:
But but the the news of that that road map, like you said, I I I love when there's consistency around, here's where we're going, and we'll show you how we're gonna get there and how you said over 600 parts of the ecosystem and growing in in in a lot of different areas of focus. So, obviously, being here at Consensus and continuing to show different types of users, whether you're a developer, whether you're an everyday user, or or whether you're someone in web 2 thinking about coming over to web 3. Yeah. There's a lot of ways to be a part of this growing ecosystem. What do you think are some of those first steps that have people excited to come and participate in what Parity has going on?
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:17:21]:
Well, I think being able to participate in governance is something that is really important to people all the time, but particularly we're in a mega election year across the world. And so governance is a topic that is at, you know, near and dear to a lot of people's hearts within web 3, but also generally within the community. So having that very active community, I think, attracts people. You know, we've got all the different verticals that you would imagine to be NFT, within Polkadot. But, you know, today there was a really exciting announcement: AI Mythical Games and Pudgy Penguins Okay.
Richard Carthon [00:17:58]:
About a collaboration, and Mythical is building on Polkadot. Right.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:17:59]:
And that's NFL AI. Yes. You know, John Brendan. Oh, yeah. He brought Call of Duty to the market. Yep. So from the gaming perspective, that's pretty phenomenal, really. We have Frank McCourt, Project Liberty through MeWe, decentralized social media, and, of course, mister McCourt just, is making a bid for TikTok.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:18:21]:
Right.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:18:22]:
We've got KILT, which is all about digital identity, and they're collaborating with Deloitte. We've got Centrifuge, Will World Assets. I mean, Edge of NFT, Unique Network, focusing on NFTs, and especially the one with Connor Daley on Indianapolis AI, and and the list goes on. AI, you know, it's everything you would expect. And I think so one of the things about substrate, which is, of course, you know, the SDK for Polkadot, is that it it is something that is easily built upon, but we are very conscious that we want to continue to work on the developer experience, make sure it's not complicated, make sure it's open to everyone from the most sophisticated REST developers to those who are fluent in other programming languages and, other approaches. So it's something that I'm very fortunate to watch some of the best in the business work on on a day to day basis.
Richard Carthon [00:19:23]:
Incredible. And especially the big announcement with Mythical and and and everything else going on. Obviously, parity and and and everything else within the ecosystem has so much going on. Like I said, with governance, it's very important. And the fact that, like you said, 10,000,000,000 and it has to be voted upon and and things like that, it it it's a very powerful all on chain.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:19:43]:
All on chain.
Richard Carthon [00:19:44]:
It's a direction that I think a lot of the industry is probably going to follow, and being able to set all that up is its own set of challenges. And, of course, you being legal, I'm sure you're all over that. But something I wanna lead into just for a little bit more is road maps around, like, what does the future look like? So there's a lot of projects, unfortunately, but when they first came into the game, they were very narrow, let's call it, 6 to maybe 18 months, and AI was really thinking about, okay. What does this next decade look like? Like, what are we ultimately headed towards? And Dot, for me, has always had that in mind. Always. And, obviously, you keep going with more and more steps towards, I mean, you end up working with Deloitte, working with all, you know, all these enterprises. Why do you think people who are listening to this and maybe have been on the fence of, like, you know, I've heard about that. I haven't really done NFT.
Richard Carthon [00:20:28]:
Like, why is 2024, hey. I need to not only pay attention to this.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:20:35]:
Well, I think we're at a real inflection point across the world generally, but also within web 3. Right? This is, from an adoption perspective where we're being talked about in the mainstream. And when I say we, I mean, you know, if you're about Polkadot, you're about a multi chain future. Right? We're not tribalistic. We're all about interoperability. And I think that is also very fundamental to how we wanna interact with the whole industry and also those who aren't part of Web 3 yet and bring them into the fold because the digital economy is the future. Yeah. And, I mean, my 13 year old and 8 year old, you know, they spent 2 years of their lives on roadblocks.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:21:21]:
Right. Right? They're very comfortable with the digital identity, and it's the future. It's where we're going. And so to be a part of, I think, a project like Polkadot, where we are building that future. It's NFT. You don't wanna be left behind. Right?
Richard Carthon [00:21:41]:
Right.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:21:42]:
And I think you're gonna see a lot more adoption around the world of some of these fundamental concern about privacy of privacy or in the states, I should say, And inclusion and, just leveling the playing field, I think, and and getting more people involved and and active And, again, this is digital world that we're creating. It's the time now.
Richard Carthon [00:22:14]:
It is the time. NFT , ever since getting into Web 3, this is the future that I knew was coming, but it's not just talking about it. Things are happening all the time between regulations passing, ETFs passing
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:22:24]:
Absolutely.
Richard Carthon [00:22:25]:
So much more that's on the way. I think this is gonna be a very exciting year, and obviously
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:22:28]:
Fit NFT?
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:22:29]:
Fit 21
Richard Carthon [00:22:30]:
is the
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:22:30]:
top AI. Bipartisan effort Yeah. Especially sitting outside the US, but being a very patriotic American, it did warm my heart to see that type of bipartisan effort, which I think is actually more prevalent in other countries and jurisdictions, but to see that happening in the US for so many reasons. AI I hope it's just the start of that AI. And, because in the end, it it's about innovation
Richard Carthon [00:22:57]:
Right.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:22:58]:
And progress and what Americans are great at. So let's let's keep focusing on that, whatever your political affiliation, across all industries and all walks of life.
Richard Carthon [00:23:09]:
Absolutely. But to your point, the bipartisan piece, I think the more that we can do bipartisan things as it relates to web 3 and and and keep innovation going and and also putting in frameworks that allow for innovation and progress to happen at an accelerated rate, we have great things ahead. So, you know, this has been an absolute joy for all those who somehow don't know about Polkadot. How can they learn more and and and, also potentially connect with you?
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:23:35]:
Right. So, I mean, we're active across all the normal socials, Instagram, x. That's of course where our devs are most active. Discord, but I think it starts with Polkadot. Parity, who I work for, it's the leading contributor from a tech perspective to Polkadot, but really starts with the Polkadot wiki. Find out about staking. Find out about, you know, how DOT is a utility token, and just do your research in the normal places. I'm most active on LinkedIn because I kinda think you have to pick 1 and Yeah.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:24:07]:
Gotta pick a lane.
Richard Carthon [00:24:08]:
Gotta pick 1.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:24:11]:
AI picked that. So it's Chrissy Hill. You'll see me with the red hair and the polka dot sign, and I'm Kelley would love to hear from anyone. And I've only been two and a half years in this space, so the learning curve has been quite steep.
Richard Carthon [00:24:26]:
Yeah.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:24:27]:
But it has been the frontier of law and regulation and Kelley a society. And I think it's where the future is going, and I think it's a very hopeful, optimistic future, so be a part of it.
Richard Carthon [00:24:42]:
I agree. Well, 2 years in this space is AI 5 years NFT,
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:24:44]:
AI dog years, isn't it, Richard?
Richard Carthon [00:24:46]:
It is. AI, well, Chrissy, absolute joy. Thank you for joining us, and hope you've joined us consistently.
Chrissy Hill, Parity / Polkadot [00:24:50]:
Thank you so much, Richard. Alright. Thank you for having me. Alright.
Richard Carthon [00:24:53]:
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Richard Carthon [00:25:24]:
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Richard Carthon [00:25:52]:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Edge of NFT, and I am Richard Carthon. I live at Consensus here in Austin, Texas NFT.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:26:00]:
And I
Richard Carthon [00:26:01]:
have another really awesome guest with us today. We have Nick Santamaro who is a visionary in the NFT space and a key player at Magic Eden. He's also leading the marketplace revolutionizing digital collectibles. He has a keen eye for innovation with a passion for democratizing art and has been instrumental in turning Magic Eden into the go to platform for NFT enthusiasts and creators alike. Nick, push out.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:26:24]:
Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Richard Carthon [00:26:25]:
AI, there's so much that's been going on in this space. Magic Eden has taken a really cool stance, not just getting involved with NFTs, but also on the ordinals and the rune side and so much coming in that direction. So before we dive into all that, like, I first wanna learn just a little bit about you. Like, how did you even get into web 3?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:26:45]:
Yeah. I was product, like, probably part of the, like, the 2017 class, but I got in a little bit earlier than that. Of AI mid NFT. AI my, my buddy just AI kinda hushed over to me and was like, yo, Ethereum, bro. And I just, like, kinda got into it, from that angle. And so working with Apple at the time, just like kind of day trading in between 2017 run happened, lost everything that I gained, like one of those, like, you know, totally give it back to the market kind of situations. But just double down, learning how to trade a little bit more was like really diving into the tech and, like, I knew it was gonna happen again. AI I didn't want to miss that next run.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:27:20]:
And 2020 started, I got a job at Binance. They're one of my clients at Apple. And it was just unbelievable to AI, kind of combining a passion with work experience. And so, the passion just grew from there, was their head of growth for like three and a half years. And then once the whole Binance thing was going down in the US, they kind of didn't want any more US employees. So I made the jump to Magic Ethan, and I've been loving it ever since.
Richard Carthon [00:27:45]:
Well, that's awesome. I've been in a space just around the same amount of time, back in 2018. Nice. And it's definitely been a very interesting 6 year journey. Right? Lots of peaks and valleys, lots of things that have defined different moments in time. And I think one of the moments in time that I'm paying a lot of attention to right now is the world of ordinals, BRC NFT, runes, etcetera.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:28:06]:
Yeah.
Richard Carthon [00:28:07]:
And right now, I think Magic Eden is helping to lead the way for that particular marketplace. So what was the strategic move for Magic Eden to to evaluate and and and create this marketplace for people to to come and participate in?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:28:19]:
Yeah. So, I wasn't around at the time, when we came up with the AI. It was like back in 2023 when Rune's, I'm sorry, when Ornel started. We launched our platform in March 2023. And from what I was told, around the strategy at the time was, hey, like this provenance has a chance to be something really big because Bitcoin was the first mover advantage since back in 2009. What if it has, like, kind of that wave that Ethereum had, and now there's even, you know, kind of more capital in the system, and it could be even bigger than Ethereum NFTs one day. And so they kind of, like, went down that path. They built it out.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:28:53]:
And yeah, you know, like, there was a little bit of pop at first, but then there was that long trough. And then things finally started catching on, people finally started realizing that you could actually do something with your Bitcoin and keep it in the Bitcoin ecosystem without having to go to, like, centralized solutions, custody solutions, and you Janney actually make more Bitcoin with your Bitcoin. And so just by getting out in front of that and realizing that, you know, there are a ton of people that love Bitcoin, all over the world. Why would we not put ourselves in that situation where we could, you know, really dominate the market early? Yeah. And I
Richard Carthon [00:29:23]:
I think during those conversations, I was very forward thinking because it's definitely coming. Truly tenfold. Right? You have your Bitcoin ETFs that got approved this year. Recently, Ethereum ETFs have picked up, but all of this attention, I think, right now is around both of these ecosystems, especially around Bitcoin. Yeah. So when Magic Eden looks at its roadmap, right NFT, kind of looking into the rest of the year, what does that kind of look like?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:29:50]:
Yeah, I mean, we definitely love Bitcoin. We have that entire ecosystem that's kind of burgeoning there. We're seeing those l twos pop up, you know, that kind of stuff. Do we want to be a player on the L two that wins, that kind of stuff. But we're also looking at it too, from an AI UX perspective in all of web 3. You have to go to different websites like NFT AI NFT, trade fungibles, and do all these different things. And it's just kind of a nightmare, having all that UX in all these different places. There's scams everywhere, all that stuff.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:30:23]:
So we kind of see an opportunity to, to really put that into one place, we see an opportunity to, to become, you know, if you look at our mission statement, we don't actually just talk about NFT. We talk about just digital ownership, right? So that moves beyond NFTs. We see those UX problems, and we want to solve them. And we want to move beyond just NFT. And so I think you're gonna start seeing us move that direction a little bit more. We think we can help the industry finally solve that UX problem. And you know, why not us? Yeah. I like it, man.
Richard Carthon [00:30:54]:
The user experience piece of this has always been one of the largest challenges, not just for newbies coming into this space, but even some of your OGs AI Yeah. Having to do all these different steps, having to go to all the different places. What part's safe, maybe Exactly. Others and Exactly. Being able to not stress about that entire UX is very important. Exactly. So as y'all are continuing to build into that, and you think about, okay, well, what are the companies we want to be working with right now for Magic Eden? If someone's listening to this right now, they're like, cool, how do I become part of Magic Eden? Like, what does that user journey look like?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:31:24]:
Yeah. So right now we have 3, AI, actual real business lines standing up, We're actually already more than just NFTs. Right? So we have our cross chain NFT marketplace, with all the major trading chains, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, based in Polygon. Also, as a teaser, looking to expand more from there. But we also have fungible trading already. We have RUNES right now. We're at 65% market share last I checked, for runes. That means that we already have a real fungibles business.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:31:50]:
And we have our our, our wallet, our Magic Eden wallet with over 200,000 users already. Wow. I don't know if people know that yet. Yeah. So those three kinds of business lines, you can get involved in every in any single way. And right now, they're kind of
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:32:02]:
a little bit separate,
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:32:03]:
in terms of AI, you know, how you interact with each other. But we're gonna be getting really, really close with all those different business lines. We wanna solve that UX problem. And so combining those 3 businesses we have with more businesses in the future is just gonna AI to bring everything together and just make it convenient for users and a safer experience. So I don't think it's about any one way to get involved with Magic Eden. I think, you know, right now, we have those three ways, but in the future, there's gonna be a lot of ways that you can get involved.
Richard Carthon [00:32:27]:
Lost. Most definitely. And I I think one that really stood out to me is AI. I had no idea that messaging had that many wallet users.
Richard Carthon [00:32:33]:
I know that messaging had a wallet, but I had no idea that that was that much adoption. So, of course, there's always so many ways that you can interact with the AI, and there's so many other pieces of that. So there's a lot of unique opportunities to be able to work with Matt Matt and Eden. Agreed. And so with joining the company, of course, one of the beautiful things is AI. Do you keep evolving? Like, how do you keep getting more users in? How do you keep growing your community and all of that kind of stuff? Mhmm. As you look at 2024, like, what are some of the things that Imagine Gen is looking at doing to continue to grow and then spread the word of all these amazing features that you have?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:33:02]:
Yeah. So that does come down to a marketing problem. Right? You have the way we're kind of looking at it is, like, different cohorts of people. We think the the crypto enabled world audience is about 500,000,000 people
Richard Carthon [00:33:14]:
right now.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:33:15]:
We think that's mostly like centralized exchanges. And then if you get into AI the web 3 space, it's much smaller, probably like the 30 to 50,000,000 web 3 space. And then NFTs are even smaller than that. There are probably about 5,000,000 people there. And so what we really ideally wanna do is is not grow the 500,000,000 to the rest
Richard Carthon [00:33:33]:
of the 8,000,000,000 people in the world.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:33:36]:
We don't wanna play in that ballpark. Right? What we wanna do is we wanna play in the web 3, 30,000,000 people cohort, and then we also ultimately wanna get people from centralized changes into the decentralized space because, you know, not your keys, not your coins kind of thing.
Mark Long, Shrapnel [00:33:47]:
Right?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:33:48]:
So that's the AI of how we're thinking about it. How do we make products and services such that the 30,000,000 people have their lives benefited, in a way where we're actually solving their problems? Right? And then how do we get that 500,000,000 people to make that trek into web 3, that's a little bit harder to do. That's a little bit more upper funnel for us. So that 30,000,000 people that we really are targeting right now is what we think is the biggest opportunity. But if we ultimately think from a utilitarian perspective, and make problems, make products that solve people's problems, we think they're going to come to us. Right now, I think a lot of the times like web 3, other dApps, they're just kind of focused on things like trading infrastructure and that kind of stuff, which is great, AI? But, if you're not solving people's day to day problems, then you're not going to move beyond just, you know, ebbs and flows and cycles and that kind of stuff. We wanna get to a place where it's sure it's gonna be a little bit cyclical for the future. We wanna get to a place where you have to use crypto because you used it once, and you're never gonna go back the other.
Richard Carthon [00:34:46]:
That's right. And I think that's the right line of thinking as we head into the future. But even speaking to, you know, solving immediate problems that are there, I know myself NFT I think about, like, people that have been in that 30,000,000 that you're talking about, have been Bitcoin Maxis. And I have nothing against Bitcoin Maxis, but I know that they're really excited about the potential of all these things between Ordinals, ruins, everything Edge. All these AI, Ethereum-esque and other players in this space, things that have been built that can now be built on Bitcoin, right, from DeFi to art to, lending to to so much more. And having a place where they can go and immediately start to interact and do some of those things, Like, Imagine Eating is solving that problem. And now expanding their minds to, like, oh, well, yeah, Bitcoin's awesome, but, like, oh, they also do stuff on all these other platforms. NFT me check that out.
Richard Carthon [00:35:35]:
Right? So you're solving the media problem, but people get curious. People wanna learn more, and that's when they start looking at other offerings. So I think going at that approach is very smart and also working with the immediate problems of the audience that you have. Yep. So when you look at 2024 and everything that's happening just in the world of 3, and right now, of course, things are turning more bullish because of just where the market is, you know, ETFs, regulation, everything else. Where do you think the world of marketplaces will be 12 months from now?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:36:14]:
12 months from now is tough. I do see consolidation at some point. AI. And I think that's kind of what we're talking about right now
Richard Carthon [00:36:21]:
a little bit.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:36:22]:
We have those 3 business lines. Does it really need to be 10 different websites for you to do everything you need to do in web 3? We don't think so. We think it should be convenient. We think 1 or 2 clicks to get to the other things that you want to do should all be in one place. You don't need all these different links that maybe you could have, you know, a drainer, kind of mixed in on one of them. I don't know if it's gonna get there in 12 months. But, I think one of the things that we're doing really well right now internally, just to toot our own horn a little bit, is we're AI of thinking beyond 12 months a little bit too. We're thinking in that short term in that 6 to 12 month area.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:36:55]:
Of course, you have to. You have to be able to be AI and pivot, when competitors can match a little bit. But we also want to be thinking 2, 3 years out. Right? Where's the industry going? What are those problems that we're going to need to get out in front of and skate to where the puck is going? So I don't know if it's gonna happen in 12 months, but we believe in 3 years, there's gonna be heavy consolidation. So much so that it's not just per chain consolidation, but across chain consolidation. You know, you have your futures exchanges on all these different changes on all these different chains. Right? You have NFT marketplaces on all these different chains. We ideally see a world where the chain experience gets put to the back end of the background.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:37:36]:
And it's really just about solving user problems. Right? From an NFT perspective, if you have Bitcoin and you wanna buy a Solana NFT, it should be as seamless as one click. We're building products to that end. And so we really want to solve the user experience. We really want to make sure that people are safe in a protected environment where they still are, in that Web 3 ethos where we're not owning their coins, but they still can feel safe at the same time.
Richard Carthon [00:38:01]:
The justimization of AI and security is always one of those that makes it that UX experience, like we said, that will be very challenging. But directly addressing that and trying to make that one step versus all of these, I think it's the ultimate solution. So I'm very excited. Here Magic Eden is going after that. And there's a lot of other amazing updates and things that are happening. So people who wanna follow Magic Eden and become more involved or even keep up with all the things that you're doing, how can they do that?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:38:28]:
Yeah. So another big marketing campaign kicking Jeff, kind of mid June, late June. So yeah, that's going to be the NFT phase of hearing what's coming from us. We'll probably take that into July. So, what we're gonna do for the industry is define what we see as the problems. And then in July, I think we're gonna try and show how we're going about solving those problems. So it shouldn't be hard to follow along. We're actively looking to get the message out there and showcase what we believe are the problems and how we're gonna solve them.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:38:57]:
And so just yeah. Follow us on Twitter at Magic Eden. We are getting into TikTok. Okay. We wanna, yeah, we wanna, you know, onboard that NFT z, audience that is Wall Street Bets AI of. Yeah.
Richard Carthon [00:39:08]:
You know,
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:39:09]:
they wanna AI yeah. They wanna start making a financial name for themselves. And we wanna make, you know, financial incentives, and, you know, prerogatives for everybody. So, we definitely want to keep expanding our channel strategy. So AI, you don't have to come find us. We'll come find you. But if not, yeah, magic eating on Twitter is probably our number one source at this point.
Richard Carthon [00:39:30]:
Perfect. And, if someone wants to potentially keep up with what Nick's got going on, is there a way
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:39:34]:
to do that? I I I do have my own handle and santema, at Twitter. But, you know, it's just me shitposting a little bit. You know? I'm not gonna be talking too much business there. I do try to prognosticate a little bit. But, AI know, try and try and keep those
Richard Carthon [00:39:47]:
a little
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:39:47]:
a bit separate.
Richard Carthon [00:39:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. Completely understand. Well, Nick, I really appreciate it. And I guess one final question for you. You're here at consensus. Why consensus? Why be here at this moment for this event?
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:39:56]:
Yeah. I mean, I Josh love coming here for the environment. You know, the energy is still here. Buller bear. Every year, the energy is just through the roof. Right?
Richard Carthon [00:40:02]:
Yeah.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:40:03]:
This is where builders are. People don't really care about cycles as much here. Right? They're gonna build a polar bear no matter what. And that kind of energy just gets me up in the morning. Right? I know that we're not just building a shitcoin casino. AI loves knowing that we are building something real, that's going to have a lot of value and improve a lot of people's lives.
Richard Carthon [00:40:21]:
Absolutely. And walking around here and seeing 1000 of people. It's very real. Yes. So, Nick, glad you're here and be a part of it and appreciate you talking with us.
Nic Santomauro, Magic Eden [00:40:27]:
Thanks for
Richard Carthon [00:40:28]:
having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. Hey, everyone. Richard from Edge of NFT here, and we live at NFT. And I have Dean Tribble from Agoric. Excited to learn more about everything that you guys have going on. How has your ConsenSys overall experience been so far?
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:40:43]:
It has been just great. Now a lot of what we do is side events because we're in this extended ecosystem and the cosmos ecosystem connects to all these chains. But, you know, it pulls people in and into a great town. It's been a great experience.
Richard Carthon [00:40:55]:
Great, man. Well, I've also been having a great time. We've been talking with a lot of amazing people, and I want to make sure I spent a quick moment to spend time learning more about Agoric and so our audience could learn more as well. So, can you just give us a little overview of, like, you know, what's Agoric about and how you know, what what are some of the next steps that are happening throughout the
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:41:13]:
Absolutely. So Agoric is a layer 1 chain, based on the Cosmos SDK, the Cosmos ecosystem, for doing smart contracts in JavaScript. Right? Rather than try and teach people a brand new language, there are 15,000,000 developers out there that already understand JavaScript. If we wanna reach them in the future in order to have all of this technology that we're doing roll out into all the areas of daily life, we need to be able to have those programmers build this stuff. And that's where we started. That's where our, you know, future ramp up and mission is. But it turns out we're solving a much nearer term problem as people come out of the word work and go, can I use it to do this thing? Can I say that that is what we're challenged by now? And so we're starting to find exciting product market fit, with our platform now for what's called chain abstraction.
Richard Carthon [00:42:00]:
Okay. Well, let's stay there for a second because, you know, one of the most important things, I think, within ecosystems is making sure that you have a way to get good talent, and developers that are coming over into Web 3, most of them know how to do Java. Yep. So you already have a barrier to entry that makes it a lot easier. So tell us a little bit more about
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:42:19]:
Sure. So, I mean, about the JavaScript part? Yeah. So we've actually been in the JavaScript Standards Committee, some of our people, for 15 years now. They came in precisely to add to JavaScript the elements so that you could do smart contracts. We worked on smart contracts. I worked on the first production smart contract in 1989. And we've worked on smart contract systems that are pre blockchain, that are about software that's enforcing the terms of a contract-like arrangement between third parties, like eBay and PayPal and Airbnb and Uber and Lyft. Those are all smart contract businesses, a $1,000,000,000 market gap before we ever get to blockchain.
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:42:53]:
And so now we're bringing all those ideas and all that stuff into blockchain that just adds this new layer of integrity, and it's really exciting to see what the combination is. But all of that was around how do we get a lot of developers to do this so we can get a lot more sales systems helping strangers to cooperate in new ways. And so that's been our sort of driving vision is software enabling people to cooperate. And, you know, and and so it's just great to be able to actually now build that in this context that easily goes international, that easily incorporates, you know, all these services that people are building now.
Richard Carthon [00:43:23]:
Absolutely. And with being able to have a language that's so accessible, Yeah. How what are some of the first use cases of people coming and building on a go work
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:43:32]:
for your layer 1? Like, what
Richard Carthon [00:43:33]:
How has the community responded with building some of these different tools?
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:43:37]:
Yeah. So it is a general purpose platform, so people are building a broad spectrum of things. The very first thing that rolled out was a MakerDAO like stable token, right, a stablecoin, for the Cosmos ecosystem. So you can take ATOM or Osmo or Celestia token, whatever, bring it over as collateral, you know, and mint this stable token, IST, against it and use that for commerce on various Cosmos chains. It's now bridged over to Polkadot chains and people are looking at getting it over to ETH and that sort of thing. So that's all written in JavaScript in this thing where people could easily understand it. There is a project that was launched, NFTs. NFT new kind of NFT where you Janney do what we call hierarchical NFTs.
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:44:18]:
Right? You know, I've got a player character. I've got an NFT for my game character. They have an inventory. Right? Selling you, transferring the character that does not have it. So the NFT is this compound thing that is both the unique character and what they were equipped with, right? Same architecture, that same notion of property would let me sell you a ticket for a concert that includes a VIP parking pass and 2 drink tickets that I could separate out and sell to someone else NFT. Or you could, once I transfer that whole thing to you, you could pull it apart and send out these pieces. And so that ability to do new kinds of property easily in a way that, again, millions of developers can understand, You know, you can use Versus Code, the most popular development environment on the planet to be able to build this stuff is really cool. And so were we, you know, those projects built and launched.
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:45:07]:
What people are excited about now is we have a very unique ability in JavaScript to deploy these cross chain applications, which, you know, now with the success of Interop, with the success of of Interop, you know, IBC, and with the success of Modular, with Celestia and Dimension and Saga and and all the Ethan twos and and those AI of things, you've got this explosion of small chains, application chains, special purpose chains that all wanna you know, they've all got communications wired up with their protocols, but, man, programming that is hard. Right? And so users wanna be able to just go in and use all that stuff, but, you know, programming those simple use cases is hard. In the web 2 world, people used to, you know, I push a button and I order a hamburger and it gets delivered to my house. And I do not know whether it uses Amazon or whether it uses Google or whether it uses Shopify or 6 different other things that I've never heard of. What I want is my hamburger delivered hot. And this whole world now as users start to get into web 3 is, you know, I wanna push the button to have my tokens delivered hot. I wanna kill the dragon and get the NFT. I I don't care where it is.
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:46:12]:
I just want this to happen for me as a simple user case and implementing simple user solutions turns out to be hard. And so we provide unique solutions for that, and people have got real excited about that. So that's that's that's now that's now got me energized. It's got the community energized. It's really exciting.
Richard Carthon [00:46:29]:
Sounds like you guys are bringing simplicity to interoperability and doing it in a safe and secure way on top of Cosmos, which is exciting. And for people who are listening to this, they're like, okay. That sounds really awesome. How do I find that documentation? Like, how do I learn more about Agoric and get involved? What do those next steps look like?
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:46:45]:
So, go to Agoric dot com. Excuse me. Agoric dot com or check out at Agoric on Twitter, NFT, whatever you call it. And, and and you'll see both our general side and general stuff and the orchestration work. It's called orchestration. That's how 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars are coordinated in Web 2 now. That's how 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars are gonna be coordinated in Web 3, in the future. And so that's a place to learn.
Richard Carthon [00:47:10]:
Absolutely. Well well, Dean, this sounds really awesome. I'm sure a lot of our audience are going to go and check this out, and, hope you enjoy the rest of your existence, and thanks for talking with us, man.
Dean Tribble, Agoric [00:47:19]:
Thank you. And all the developers out there, come check it out.
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