In this episode of Edge of NFT, Mohammad Hadhrawi and Josh Kriger delve into the Outer Edge event and the future of Web3 technology, highlighting the advancements and ambitions of KACST in developing and integrating Web 3 technologies across various sectors in Saudi Arabia.

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This episode is Brought to you by Request Finance, Castmagic and Unstoppable Domains and sponsored by KACST.

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Please enjoy!

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Key Topics Covered:

• Outer Edge Event and Web 3 Technology: Mohammed Hadhrawi and Josh Kriger discuss the Outer Edge event, highlighting its focus on the future of esports, smart cities, and the global adoption of Web 3 technology. The event aims to connect global leaders, visionaries, and showcase Saudi Arabia's commitment to leading the digital era.

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• KACST's Role in Web 3 Research: KACST is deeply involved in Web 3 research, focusing on digital identity, secure data sharing, AI integration with blockchain, and sustainable urban development. The institute's efforts are acknowledged for co-hosting the Outer Edge event in collaboration with NEOM, Kext, and Animoca Brands.

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• Web 3 Technology and Gaming: Mohammed Hadhrawi promotes NFT and Web 3 technology for immersive gaming experiences in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. As a research scientist and the general manager of gaming and immersive technologies at CAST, he discusses the potential of Web 3 for healthcare, the need for user empowerment, and integrating AI while emphasizing the importance of attracting global HCI experts for Web 3 technology development.

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/

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Episode Highlights:

• Mohammed Hadhrawi: “The future of Web 3 technology means a convergence of ideas and innovation, and the Outer Edge event is the perfect embodiment of this. It's not just about the virtual world; it's about the intersection with real-world applications: esports, smart cities, sustainable urban development. This event is a showcase of Saudi Arabia's commitment to leading the digital era.” [Timestamp: 4:32] 

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• Mohammed Hadhrawi: "Our aspiration is to use Web 3 technologies to enhance interactive experiences and create new forms of engagement in the gaming sector. We see this as not just about gaming but also about innovation, education, and community building."  [Timestamp: 21:45] 

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• Mohammed Hadhrawi: "We are planning to attract top researchers from around the world and showcase future gaming technologies at expos and the World Cup, making us a catalyst for global research and a pioneer in the gaming and immersive technology space.”  [Timestamp: 29:10] 

For the full transcript, see further below. 

People and Resources Mentioned: 

• King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST) Website
•  Mohammed Hadhrawi LinkedIn
• King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST) LinkedIn  
• Animoca Brands Website
• Neom Website
• National Gaming and Esports Strategy of Saudi Arabia PDF
• Seha Virtual Hospital Website
• Outer Edge Riyadh Website     

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About Our Guest: 

• Bio: Mohammad is a visionary leader and strategist passionate about creating the impossible. With a solid foundation in computer science, media, arts, and information, his expertise lies in leveraging technology to transform industries and push achievable boundaries. With degrees from the University of Cambridge, MIT, the University of Michigan, and KFUPM, he blends technical acumen with insights into human behaviour. As General Manager at KACST's Gaming and Immersive Technologies Institute, he's shaped strategy and led transformative projects. His roles have spanned from innovation directorship at Mahd Sports Academy to leadership at KACST Academy, enhancing talent development in science and technology.
• Website: CCES Website 
• Twitter: @moharawi
• LinkedIn: Mohammed Hadhrawi 

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This is not financial or tax advice. Edge of NFT content is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. Whenever making financial decisions, we recommend doing your own research and talking to your accountant for financial advice. Disclosure: From time-to-time we may feature sponsored content for which we receive value and we may share links for which we receive a commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. See our full Disclaimer (https://www.edgeofnft.com/disclaimer), Terms & Conditions (https://www.edgeofnft.com/terms-of-use), Privacy Policy (https://www.edgeofnft.com/privacy-policy), and Copyright Notice (https://www.edgeofnft.com/copyright-notice) for details. 

Full Episode Transcript:

Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:00:00]:

Hi. This is Mohammed Hadrawi of KACST, exploring the frontiers of gaming and immersive experiences to redefine the outer edge of human experiences. You are turned into the Edge of NFT, joining next to the outer edge of technology on April 23rd in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Keep listening and join us in Riyadh.

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Josh Kriger [00:00:21]:

Hey, Web 3 curious listeners. Stay tuned for today's episode to learn why the intersection of human-computer interaction, HCI, and Web 3 is going, and how today's guest is progressing in immersive gaming and experiences in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Finally, KACST decided to co-host Outer Edge Riyadh, an exclusive gathering of global Web 3 and AI leaders on April 23rd this year. All this and more on this special edition of Edge of NFT we're calling Road to Riyadh. Cue the intro.

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Ad Read / Disclaimer [00:00:53]:

Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast that brings you the top NFT% of Web 3 today and what will stand the test of time.

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Ad Read / Disclaimer [00:01:00]:

We explore the nuts and bolts of the business side and also the human element about Web 3 is changing the way we interact with the things we love. This podcast is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers who are pumped about this ecosystem and driving where it goes next.

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Josh Kriger [00:01:19]:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to another edition of Edge of NFT, the podcast created by Jeff Kelly, Ethan, Janney, and myself, Josh Krieger. It's another production of the Edge of Company, a quickly growing media ecosystem empowering the pioneers of Web 3, tech, and culture in response for other groundbreaking endeavors AI Outer Edge Innovation Festival, where we're going next in April 23rd with Riyadh, Saudi Arabia as our stop for a Web 3 innovation forum where leaders and visionaries unite to forge the future of smart cities, gaming, finance, and art. And today's special Road to Riyadh show features Mohammed AI, the general manager of gaming and immersive technologies institute at KACST. A research scientist and founder and inaugural chairman of the Saudi Rowing Federation, Mohammed leverages his skills in human-computer interaction, user interface design, and tangible programming to drive forward technology advancements and educational initiatives. With an educational background at King Fahd University, University of Cambridge, University of Michigan, Harvard Business School, and MIT, his contributions to AI with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's global scientific collaborations, of, and fields like human computer interaction, data visualization, decision support systems, gaming, and immersive experiences. Mohammed also just happens to be a former rowing champion. And for those that haven't caught our 1st Rotor Riot episode with Yahtzee, King Abdulaziz's city for AI and technology, KACST, is based in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

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Josh Kriger [00:02:56]:

It's a government entity established in 1977 that leads scientific research and innovation, fostering advancements in fields such as nuclear energy, space science, and biotechnology for the kingdom. It operates multiple research centers and institutes collaborating globally with entities like MIT, Caltech, Boeing, and contributing to Saudi Arabia's technology and scientific development. Moe, it's so great to have you on the show on this very auspicious end of Ramadan that we find ourselves. Well, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah. I know we've been excited to do this ever since we got to share our 1st paleo treat together, and our audience knows that I really like sacking on healthy food. So appreciated that, that respite on a hot day as well as sort of that extra espresso on one of my long flights back over to Riyadh from the US.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:03:53]:

Yeah. It was a pleasure having you there. It was nice, and it was a good time to have that treat, actually. Yeah. It was really impressive to learn what KACST is doing in space and in sort of your unique role in the ecosystem and how you're sort of propelling this very innovative technology and education platform over in the kingdom. But I guess to get started, I always like to ask folks where their Web 3 journey began, and I'm curious how that fits into this overall plethora of technologies that you've found yourself in over the last few decades.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:04:28]:

Well, certainly. It's interesting, Janney. Embarking on the Web 3 journey was an intellectual evolution. So it's deeply influenced by my time at the MIT Media Lab, my doctoral research at Cambridge and teaching at Harvard. These institutions ingrained in me a commitment to pushing the boundaries of knowledge and technology. And, my journey began with exploring human computer interaction, focusing on making technology more accessible and easy to use. And the decentralized, secure, user empowered nature of Web 3 presents a new frontier for HCI, offering opportunities to reimagine how we interact with digital environments. It's, I would say it's the blend of technical challenge and the potential of societal impact that drew me into Web 3.

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Josh Kriger [00:05:24]:

Some questions come to mind is how do we make these advanced concepts accessible and beneficial to everyone? I think that something happens or comes to my mind. If you think of some examples such as health in healthcare, you know, Estonia, they're pioneering in this domain. They have patient records, digitized and secured by the blockchain and providing a single data or as one single source of truth, for health care professionals.

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Josh Kriger [00:05:56]:

Yeah. That's a great example of some of the real world potential of Web 3. When you look at sort of mainstream media, it can also often gloss over these really meaningful use cases that are still being built out. And in some cases, like you've described, they've actually come to life. Another area that sort of often gets blurred in the headlines is AI. And I'm curious sort of how AI sort of intersects with your sort of perspective, from HCI as your academic background.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:06:32]:

Well, the human computer interactions, sits at the heart of creating meaningful digital experiences. So as we venture into Web 3 and AI, the principles of HCI become even more crucial. We're not just designing interfaces, we're architecting ecosystems. HCI provides the framework for making complex systems like Web 3 accessible, focusing on user empowerment, privacy, and seamless interactions across diverse platforms. So, integrating AI into Web 3 can have the potential for AI, adaptive interfaces that can anticipate user needs while ensuring privacy without compromising user control.

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Josh Kriger [00:07:19]:

Yeah. It's really interesting when you think about both Web 3 and AI from an ecosystem perspective, how you apply HCI principles to an ecosystem versus a specific program or software solution, right, when you're looking at sort of this convergence of all these technologies?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:07:40]:

So if we're talking, let's say, about the principles of the, HCI, if we think about, let's say, the, some principles such as the user of design, when we're talking about the Web 3 and this decentralized applications, we need to consider a wider audience and consider those with limited technical knowledge of the blockchain technologies. We also need to think about Josh 's consistency and standards when we're working with decentralized AI. Then, most of the time we don't have standards and we need to make sure how we use the design guidelines or elements to be consistent throughout the different apps or decentralized apps. And there are other modes such as error preventions or ignition, flexibility efficiency of the use of the platforms and how we can incorporate HCI principles on those platforms.

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Josh Kriger [00:08:42]:

Yeah. I think these types of considerations are really important when we talk about user friendly ecosystem development. And when we think about the application of Web 3 to, you know, smart city development, like some of the more ambitious projects that NEOM is excited about and one of our partners as well for Outer Edge Riyadh. So, you know, it sounds like every team needs someone with your background on it. So I guess we'll have to figure out how to clone you, or hopefully there's enough HCI experts out there in the world to go around.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:09:18]:

There are plenty of even better HCI in the world and experts, globally. And I think that's one of the things we need to attract them, to bring them here.

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Josh Kriger [00:09:30]:

Absolutely. And that sort of leads me to, you know, your day job, which keeps you plenty busy, which is all the things that you're doing at KACST. I  found KACST to be a really interesting organization that maybe there isn't sort of a synonymous organization in some governments, in terms of its broad sort of impact that it has on the kingdom. Maybe you can talk a little bit about what you're doing at KACST and sort of let folks know what they need to know about KACST and how it sort of interrelates with the overall landscape in Saudi Arabia?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:10:09]:

Well, CAS, which is, as I mentioned earlier, the King Abdulaziz City For Science and Technology, is the forefront of pioneering research and the National Labs of Saudi Arabia with significant focus on advancing deep technologies that can have a profound societal impact. And as AI probably we have these discussions before KACST AI has some parts or 2 parts, one would be the AI and technology Carthon the other one will be the national labs or the research AI and development side. And the r and d side has 4 sectors, and these are aligned with the National Research Of and Development Strategy. And these are the health, NFT and environment, energy and industry, and future economies. And within each of these sectors, there are magnitudes of institutes. Some focus, ranging from, you know, rehabilitations, AI NFT engineering, semiconductors to AI, robotics, smart cities, space, deep sea, the gaming and immersive tech institute, which is a recently established institute.

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Josh Kriger [00:11:26]:

Yeah. Moe, that's really interesting in terms of KACST unique, you know, double-sided strategic pillars that you mentioned. What are the implications in terms of Web 3 in gaming, and how does this sort of play out in terms of your role?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:11:44]:

Okay. So, the Gaming and Immersive Technologies Institute or we call it, GT, stands at the convergence of technology, culture, and economic strategy. Temple NFT embodies our commitment to leverage, cutting into research and innovation to drive forward the kingdom's ambitious goals in gaming and esports, aligning closely with the transformative vision of Web 3 technologies to reshape industries and societies. And one of the things we're working on is one of the initiatives from the National Gaming and Esports Strategies, which is to establish a joint NFT of excellence for academic research in gaming and esports. And if you wanna look at some of the examples of this strategy, if you're not familiar with the National Gaming and Esports strategy, they have four main goals. The first one is about becoming the number one event host by organizing and hosting the most viewed esports events in the world. And to have 250 gaming companies in Saudi Arabia. 3rd one would be in the top three for number of esports athletes per capita.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:12:59]:

And finally, to have more than 30 games by KSA Based Studios reach top 300 during the next 10 years, starting in 2021. And from the strategy, the sectors are already looking at economic contributions of more than 50,000,000,000 Saudi riyals, by NFT. There's a huge investment in this domain and we are pushing the boundaries from an r and d side of things related to the strategy.

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Josh Kriger [00:13:27]:

Yeah. That's fascinating, and that definitely explains why you decided to form an MOU with Animoca Brands. I I've been coming to Riyadh quite a lot lately and have had a chance to see you on a several occasions and was there sort of on this momentum stay at LEAP where MOU was was signed where, essentially, my understanding is that you've you've developed a strategic partnership with Animoca to pioneer that Web 3 and gaming ecosystem, which makes a lot of sense. I mean, they're one of the leaders in Web 3 and gaming globally, certainly been a great partner of Edge Up Company over the years, and that's why we're so excited to do Outer Edge Riad with them. But to step back a little bit, can you kind of walk us through how this partnership came about, and what are your respective aspirations for this partnership?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:14:22]:

So as you mentioned, Animoca Brands is a big company with a portfolio of over 400, with 3 investments or projects. The partnership with Animoca Brands emerged from a shared vision of harnessing Web 3 to drive innovation and economic diversification in Saudi Arabia. Arabia. This collaboration is a strategic step towards establishing a robust Web 3 ecosystem. We're focusing on sectors like gaming, digital arts, and blockchain technology, and aim to create a fertile ground for local innovators, providing them with the tools and knowledge to contribute to the global Web 3 landscape. Through this partnership, we're not just investing in technology, but in cultivating a new generation of Saudi entrepreneurs ready to make their mark in the digital world.

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Josh Kriger [00:15:13]:

That's great. Yeah. I've I had a chance to meet some of those pioneers, in in some of my trips, and, you know, they're really excited about the potential to use some of this more nascent technology to make a impact on on the world, and I think a lot of good things will come from this partnership. Perhaps you can sort of shed some light for folks that aren't as familiar with the kingdom and some of the aspirations over the next several decades. What are some ways the Kingdom Saudi Arabia may differ from other countries in terms of Web 3, NFT, and blockchain opportunities that are present today and might be available in the near future?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:15:54]:

Well, Saudi Arabia's unique blend of visionary leadership and commitment to innovation positions it uniquely in the Web three space. Unlike many countries, Saudi Arabia's approach to digital transformation is holistic. Aiming to integrate with 3 technologies across diverse economic sectors. So this combined with our strategic partnerships like the one with Animoca Brands, aligns perfectly with the vision, NFT objectives, which is to diversify our economy and nurture a thriving digital and creative sector. We're creating an ecosystem, where technology serves as a cornerstone for economic development and cultural expression, setting a global benchmark for how countries can embrace the digital age. And then you can think of some examples like Mom's projects and vision and how they're pushing the boundaries and reimagining the cities we live in integrating robot robots, smart mobility, and how they integrate Web three technologies. Also, there is another example such as the Saudi virtual hospital, which is the biggest of its kind in the world and, the first in the Middle East and one of the latest in virtual health care. You can see it.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:17:10]:

You can push a lot of the boundaries here where you can think, what of the NFT could be of moving this further with Web 3.

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Josh Kriger [00:17:18]:

I love the health care example because it's not one that we always talk about in Web 3, but, essentially, the same gamification principles and ideas of sort of how to create immersive experiences applies to every industry. So I am curious. What are some of your other plans as this partnership moves forward? Okay. So our ambitions at KACST NFT

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:17:40]:

to visualize the gaming sector by infusing it with 3 technologies. So aiming to enhance interactive experiences and create new forms of engagement. The opportunity here is to reimagine gaming NFT just as entertainment, but as a platform for innovation, education, and community building. Through KACST initiatives, we are exploring or want to explore how decentralized technologies can create new gaming economies, empower creators and players, and foster new types of social interaction and collaboration. It's an area that's AI for innovation where the principles of game design can inform the development of more immersive, interactive and meaningful digital experiences. So, AI if we think about, you know, using generative AI in a game setup or on a real scene on your real setup and reimagining the place to be in Janney outer space or in a deep sea and try to learn more about it while engaging, in the same, space. We can think about how we can be a catalyst for global research in gaming and attract top researchers from all around the world by building this Janney center of excellence that I NFT earlier. Also, there are a lot of potentials, such as the expo and the world cup coming up later, which are potentials for showcasing, where the future of these technologies can evolve and be presented in these venues.

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Josh Kriger [00:19:18]:

Yeah. I love the breadth of what you're considering, you know, in terms of how to use Web 3 technology. Gaming is such a great use case. You know, it's one that we've talked about on the show quite a lot over the last several years, and I know it's also a passion of yours. And since you did mention outer space, I think that's a natural segue to the outer edge, which is our next stop. I know you have some travel coming up. I'm already in, AI, actually, which is why it's the evening when we're doing the show, and very grateful to our producer for setting up a little bit extra to pull this off. But in terms of the Outer Edge, I'm really excited about it.

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Josh Kriger [00:20:03]:

I've had a chance to talk to you a lot about our vision for this event, and it's been really fun to collaborate with you. What excites you about the event?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:20:13]:

Well, basically, thinking about Edge Edge Real, it represents an exciting convergence of ideas, innovation, and cultures. I think that's very unique and to bring it to reality is an exciting moment. I am particularly looking forward to the discussions around the future of esports and smart cities areas where Web 3 can have a transformative impact. This event is a unique opportunity to connect with global leaders and visionaries, sharing insights and forging partnerships that will shape the future of technology. I think it's an invaluable platform for showcasing Saudi Arabia's commitment to leading the digital era and exploring how Web 3 can redefine our interaction with the digital and physical world. So I'm I'm I'm looking forward to that, and, yeah, I look forward to having you and seeing you again in Riyadh.

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Josh Kriger [00:21:06]:

Yeah. Well, thanks for co-hosting this event with us. It's a true honor to have created this event together with our other partners, NEOM and Animoca Brands, and have folks coming together from all over the world. It's something that, you know, we were just sitting in your office talking about just a few months ago. So things happen fast in Web 3. Right? Indeed. Absolutely. So, if you're listening and you happen to catch wind of this show before 23rd April, you might not be too late to apply.

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Josh Kriger [00:21:40]:

You can go to the outer edge. AI, click on the event details, and apply. It's gonna be a more intimate event. So there are some fairly stringent criteria for selection, but we would love more leaders in the Web 3 and AI space to join us in Saudi Arabia for this special event. Definitely come by. If you don't make it, some of the content will be on the show later for our listeners, so, no need to have any FOMO. You'll be able to enjoy some of the conversations later, that we'll broadcast on the show. With that said, considering everything that we've talked about today from the KACST initiative to Outer Edge, Riyadh, I'm curious.

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Josh Kriger [00:22:23]:

How do you see events like this in countries like the kingdom influencing the global trajectory towards Web 3 mass adoption? Where are we along that path?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:22:34]:

Well, events like Outer Edge Riyadh and initiatives by KCST and collaborations such as ours with Animoca Brands play a critical role in accelerating the global adoption of Web 3 by showcasing its potential beyond the financial sector. It demonstrates the tangible benefits of Web 3 in enhancing digital, literacy, economic empowerment, and community engagement. So by focusing on applications in gaming, digital entertainment, and smart cities, we're demonstrating how Web 3 technologies can enrich daily lives. So, gaming and digital entertainment in particular serve as an accessible gateway to introduce Web 3 concepts to a wider audience, facilitating a smoother transition to a more inclusive, participatory and decentralized digital future. And one thing if you think about it, there are many places launching sandboxes such as, and and is a good example. And also there's the Digital Government Authority or DGA. They have the DJ regulatory sandbox for emerging tech. And another thing is KACST, if you think of KACST by itself, it's a sandbox by itself where a lot of deep technology can be implemented and tested there within the campus of KACST.

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Josh Kriger [00:24:00]:

Yeah. Those are some really specific, useful examples to think about in terms of the application, this technology. And it sort of gets me excited again, you know, going into what has been a warmer economic climate for Web 3. But more so, I think a lot of the testing and tooling, and tweaking, has been done. So now we can sort of use these broader use cases, to sort of support the kingdom's very ambitious NFT vision. So, I know we're getting a lot of really interesting ideas and doers in the room together with government representatives like yourself. And I think with that type of kinetic energy, anything is possible. So it's gonna be a lot of fun.

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Josh Kriger [00:24:47]:

Before we wrap up, Moe, is there anything else you wanted to share on the KACST road map for NFT and beyond that we haven't touched on yet?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:24:55]:

So looking ahead at KACST, well, KACST is poised to expand its Web 3 research and development efforts, focusing on areas like digital identity, secure data sharing, and the integration of AI with blockchain technologies. We're also exploring the potential of Web 3 in enhancing Saudi Arabia's infrastructure from energy to Kelley care and Edge, aligning with our broader goals for sustainable and smart urban development. Beyond technological innovation, we are committed to nurturing talent, hosting educational programs and workshops, and equipping our youth with the skills needed for the future. And these initiatives are just the beginning of our journey towards creating a culture of innovation and entrepreneurship, ensuring that the next generation of scientists and technologists are equipped to lead the digital age.

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Josh Kriger [00:25:49]:

Yeah. That's really great, Moe. Really excited. Sounds like you have a really fun job, when you're not helping to cocreate a conference with folks like myself and plenty to keep busy over the upcoming, few years. So that concludes our formal interview, but we do have a fun segment we call shout out that we like to include as well. This is an opportunity for you to provide some special attention to someone in your organization or maybe a partner that you're working with that you just wanna acknowledge, for our audience? Anyone come to mind?

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:26:28]:

Well, definitely, the first that comes to my mind is the team at the GTO, the Gaming and Immersive Technology Institutes. They worked really hard, despite its holidays, and they're still working, alongside this, unique opportunities for hosting or co hosting the Outer Edge Reap.

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Josh Kriger [00:26:48]:

So, yeah, I'll I'll I'll second that. It's been such a pleasure to work with your team, and we've all been bending the time matrix to accommodate each other's time zones. I don't think LA and Riyadh could be more counter and opposed in terms of time. But, nevertheless, we've managed to collaborate really well and build a very special event that I'm really excited about. Just just over, 2 weeks away when we're recording this. So, it's gonna be a real honor and I'm really excited to see you in person very soon after some of your travels. In the meantime, Moe, where can listeners go to learn more about you and KACST? So, basically, KACST has a handle on social media, on Twitter, and LinkedIn.

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Mohammad Hadhrawi [00:27:41]:

I think that's the best place.

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Josh Kriger [00:27:43]:

Perfect. So look for k a c s t on your favorite social media platform. We've reached the outer limit at the edge of NFT for today. Thanks for exploring with us. We've got space for more adventures on the star ship, so invite your friends or recruit some cool strangers that'll make this journey all so much better. How? If you're listening, go to Spotify or Itunes right now. Rate us and say something awesome. Or if you're watching this on YouTube, join over 120,000 other followers by hitting the subscribe button and passing this episode onto a friend or 2.

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Josh Kriger [00:28:19]:

Lastly, be sure to tune in next time for more great Web three content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us today.

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