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In this episode of Edge of NFT, hosts Richard and Josh explore the vibrant TON ecosystem at the TON Gateway conference in Dubai, featuring insights from community leaders and innovative projects like Midas and StoneFi. They discuss the evolution of DeFi, community engagement, and the exciting future of blockchain gaming and applications within the TON network.
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Key Topics Covered:
- Community Engagement and Growth: The importance of building a community-centric approach is emphasized, with leaders like Victor highlighting the need for ongoing interaction and support to foster growth within the TON ecosystem.
- Innovative DeFi Solutions: Projects like Midas and StoneFi are introducing unique financial products, such as yield-bearing stablecoins and simplified DeFi access, aiming to attract a broader audience to the crypto space.
- Onboarding and User Experience: The discussion around onboarding new users through engaging applications, like Hamster Combat, underscores the necessity of creating enjoyable experiences that encourage long-term participation in the TON ecosystem.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let us know in the comments on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@edgeofnft/
Episode Highlights:
- "For social media growth, it's always important to build a community-centric interaction. So that's always the key. If you want to grow, you've got to uplift your community and then figure out your own unique way, how you interact with them on a daily basis." - Victor (00:02:03):
- "Our keynote is how we need to easily onboard these users into crypto, into DeFi, because there's a huge amount of users that are coming in. They're not all crypto savvy as we are." - Martin Massa (00:11:11)
- "Midas is an asset tokenization project focused on stablecoins, specifically yield-bearing stablecoins. As you know, Tether and Circle are some of the largest companies in the space, but users don't earn any yield. So around $150 billion in stables sit there, not earning anything." - Dennis Denkelmeier (00:18:37)
For the full transcript, see further below.
People and Resources Mentioned:
- TON Society Website
- TON Society @ton_society
- Viktor @s0meone_u_know
- Martin Masser LinkedIn
- Ston.fi Website
- Dennis D.
- Midas Website
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About Our Guest 1:
- Bio: Victor has extensive experience in managing social media content and community engagement. He transitioned from a content manager to a global community lead within a few months at TON Society. He emphasizes the importance of community-centric interactions for social media growth.
- Website: https://s0meoneuknow.com/
- Twitter: @s0meone_u_know
- LinkedIn: Viktor (s0meone_u_know) Prjadkin
About Our Guest 2:
- Bio: Martin is involved in the largest decentralized exchange (DEX) on TON. He focuses on onboarding users into crypto and DeFi, emphasizing the importance of user-friendly experiences.
- Website: Ston.fi
- Twitter: @MartinatSton
- LinkedIn: Martin Masser
About Our Guest 3:
- Bio: Dennis leads Midas, an asset tokenization project focused on stablecoins and yield-bearing stablecoins. He has a background in traditional finance, having worked at Goldman Sachs and Capri Group.
- Website: https://midas.app
- Twitter: @DDinkelmeyer
- LinkedIn: Dennis D.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Richard Carthon: Hi, this is Richard. I'm excited to introduce an exciting episode that brings you my colleague Josh on the ground at TON Gateway in the conference in Dubai. As we all know, TON is a very exciting ecosystem with a lot going on. We will hear from their head of community for TON Society, which aggregates all the users of TON and all the builders and developers throughout the globe, putting them together and supporting them with all sorts of interesting resources and events like the one we attended. We also speak with projects like Midas, which is bringing DeFi to TON in a very interesting way. We also talk with the Chief Business Officer at STONePhi, who shares why he's so passionate about the TON ecosystem, where it's going, and how they are creating new FinTech products for people to use. All of this and more on the Edge of NFT. It's time to cue the intro.
Intro: Welcome to the Edge of NFT, the podcast that brings you the top 1% of Web3 today and what will stand the test of time. We explore the nuts and bolts of the business side and also the human element of how Web3 is changing the way we interact with the things we love. This podcast is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers who are pumped about this ecosystem and driving where it goes next.
Josh Kriger: Hi everyone, this is Josh Kriger, co-host of Edge of an FT, live at the TONgue Gateway, Dubai, 2024. It is a beautiful twilight evening on day two. I'm here with Victor. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Yeah, for those of you that don't know, Victor is someone you want to know. He is actually the head of the TON community ecosystem, the community lead for the TON society, which means he manages a lot of social media content channels simultaneously. Before we get into sort of TON and what's going on, how do you do that? What are your sort of growth hacks for up-and-coming social media managers? Because it's getting harder these days.
Viktor Prjadkin: I mean, it's not really a complicated thing. For me, it's very natural because I used to do that for many, many years. And I think for social media growth, it's always important to build a community-centric interaction. So that's always the key. If you want to grow, you've got to uplift your community and then figure out your own unique way, how you interact with them on a daily basis, and then just keep up the energy going day over day over day. And it kicks
Josh Kriger: Well, and it's sort of ironic you say that because before I knew who you were, I saw you dancing on top of a TON sort of Tesla truck. So I guess in both the digital world and the real world, you're the guy that brings the energy.
Viktor Prjadkin: Yes, I do. I will try to do my best. And I mean, there's been the same videographer that we filmed content in South Korea before. And it's been my pin post. We already got 1.2 million views on this. And I told him, hey, let's film some content with this Tesla truck. So we got up and went to do so. And some dancing on the roof. That was like a final touch to it.
Josh Kriger: So where did this Tesla truck come from, this TONne blinged out Tesla car?
Viktor Prjadkin: There was a new collaboration between TON and the guys that actually brought the cars. And yesterday, there was a first ever sale of the Bentley in the TON coin as well. And so they brought the Tesla Cybertruck all wrapped in TON here. And there are a couple more things coming very soon from them as well. We're going to keep it under the hood for now, but you'll see more information on my Twitter.
Josh Kriger: Cool. So how long have you been in this role with TON Society?
Viktor Prjadkin: So I joined the TON Society in March. By the last, I'd say, two to three months, I've transitioned to being a global community lead. I originally started as a content manager, but then my role quickly evolved.
Josh Kriger: All right. So things happen fast in the world of TON. We're seeing that, right? Hamster combat, incredible growth. We covered that a lot. There's a lot of interesting things happening. What have been some of the highlights for you of what you've seen in the last three months or so that you could share with the community?
Viktor Prjadkin: Yeah, I think that we see the transition from the simple tap to earn projects into more complex and interesting games to play for people. And I think it's very natural, because firstly, it needed to kick off and show potential. So it started with a not coin. Yeah, I mean, it's been great. They achieved great capitalization at launch, but it's been challenging to reward so many users. But it showed the true potential of the psycho system of Telegram and TONe integration.
Josh Kriger: Absolutely. It was the largest airdrop in history, I think.
Viktor Prjadkin: Yes. I mean, before that, the largest was also on TONe, and that was Docs. And at the time of launch, I think 42 million eligible for the airdrop. But Docs distributed actually quite a good amount of value per person. Majority of my reply guys got somewhere around 150-200 bucks for just simple tasks, no tapping, no endless playing. You know, they've been very happy about that. So going into the future, I think we're going to see a lot of applications that people will want to play because they're fun to play, not because they're just earning or because they will earn something in the future.
Josh Kriger: We learned that with blockchain gaming is that the idea of games that reward you financially, they're not sustainable, right? I still play NFL Rivals. Why? Because it's really fun to play. Yeah, because you like the game. I made $600, but it took me a long time to sell those players because I didn't want to lose them off my team. So to me, that's a more replicable, scalable model. There's been people that said when NFTs are like buying a cup of coffee, Like, when it's part of your normal life to interact in these ways, then things get real.
Viktor Prjadkin: Yeah, do you know, like, games like League of Legends, let's say, I believe it's a matter of time till someone creates something like that on TONe and Telegram, and then people would be just endlessly playing. But your characters, your skins will be the NFTs, you'll accumulate not just the useless points, but actual currency of this game that you can later exchange for TONe, etc. This is very powerful, but there's a lot of little things that still need to be figured out by those projects. And I think we're right now in a really testing phase where people are exploring what's possible to be done with this technology. And then in the future, they'll figure out what works best. And then we're going to see some more settling onto certain paths.
Josh Kriger: Very cool. So you're an ombudsman to the community and in Web 3, folks do not hold back their thoughts on the good, the bad, the ugly. Talk to some folks. Obviously, making it easy to develop on TAN, everyone knows that needs to happen. In addition to that, like diversifying the ecosystem, more geographies. What are some of the other feedback you're getting from the community and you're passing on to the right folks?
Viktor Prjadkin: So the one big feedback that the community really wanted us to do something about was meme points. They wanted us to provide more exposure to them, they wanted us to provide more support to this part of the ecosystem because, yeah, we support DeFi, we support gaming a lot, but then the meme coin is kind of being left under the hood as well. So, what we've done yesterday, we've just announced the launch of the TomNymLine there with the Kabbalah Arena and Meme Mountain. And today all the memes pumping like 100% up, the sound went like 8,000% up. Like there is a new meme coin that just surpassed 30 million market cap today. Wow. Yeah, and what I'm saying is that's what the community has been expressing. They wanted that and we just did our first step toward it. And it's already reflecting just in one single day on a massive amount of numbers of volume. We're speaking of more than $7.5 billion that's been moved around throughout the last 24 hours.
Josh Kriger: Cool. And where do you recommend people go to sort of keep in touch with everything going on in town, like how do they stay sort of ahead of the pulse? Obviously, coming to events like the Gateway, getting the sort of word in the street alpha directly as things are being built is definitely exciting. But when you're not traveling, what do you recommend people start to go down the rabbit hole?
Viktor Prjadkin: Yeah, this is actually a great question. So first of all, follow Tom blockchain on Twitter, join our telegram channel, Tom coin, and then follow Tom society. Because what we do, we're actually positioning ourselves as a media company that provides coverage of what's happening inside of the ecosystem. Meanwhile, I'm doing the breaking news on my page. So follow me in case you want to know the real news and alpha ahead of everything else before we, you know, announce some partners before we call spaces before we question the projects. If you want to know the information, following me will help. And there's already more than 300,000 people that do that. So I'm very grateful for each and every single one of you guys. I love you.
Josh Kriger: All right, so, Victor, really cool to know where people go to dive down the rabbit hole. Any predictions on what's going to happen over the next few years with TON?
Viktor Prjadkin: Well, I mean, people should participate in the Open League because we made some improvements in this regard. Because before the Open League winners, the project's been receiving the capital, the prizes. Now we want to reward the community of those projects instead. So that's the big step forward. That's the big alpha. And I think Also, participating in different activities that are provided by us and collecting SBTs is very important. I cannot say too much, but there is going to be a lot of connection between airdrops that are going to be happening and SBTs. You will see, guys. Just keep that in mind.
Josh Kriger: Alright, not financial advice, but really exciting to get your perspective on what's going on in the ecosystem. Where can folks go to keep tabs on what you're up to in the space and all the alpha?
Viktor Prjadkin: Yes, so speaking of the ecosystem, you know, we presented the metrics yesterday also at the Gateway and it's been an enormous growth through the last year, like 70x across different metrics, the community engagement is completely expanding, exploding. At this point, TONe became the third ecosystem by its size of global conversations on media after Ethereum and Solana. Which is a major, major point for us. Because we can see how excited the community is for this technology, the use of it, and how easy it is to onboard masses. So going into the future, I think hundreds of millions of people will realize that this is the easiest way to get onboarded to crypto. That's how people actually can get a first taste and touch of it, and then explore the ecosystem further. So I'd say within the next 6 to 12 months, we're going to see thousands of applications going to be deployed. A lot of them are going to be playable games, interesting games, AAA games. And I mean, people showed me some demos while here at the event. It's insane. I posted it on my timeline. People know what I mean already. But we're going to see a lot of that. Like, there are more than 200 gaming studios going to be entering the scene. They have already started to pivot and build Talon and Telegram, because they are already experienced in doing so for the ecosystem like WeChat, Kakao, and this is no different. It's just the beginning. The beginning of something very, very big.
Josh Kriger: Well, appreciate your perspective. Great to have you on the show. Hi everyone, welcome to Edge of NFT live at the TON Gateway in Dubai. And I'm here with Martin Massa, the Chief Business Development Officer at STONeFi. Great to have you on the show.
Martin Masser: Josh, man, thank you so much for having me. What a delight. Weather and a great host.
Josh Kriger: Well, thank you. You don't even know that yet, but let's see how you feel at the end.
Martin Masser: I follow you on social media, so I definitely do know that.
Josh Kriger: Well, good to have you on the show. Tell us what brings you to this event and what you guys are up to with regards to TON.
Martin Masser: What a lovely question to start off with. So, I'm Chief Business Development Officer at the largest DEX on TON, that's STONfi. I can't not be at the premier TON event. I gave a great keynote, I did a great panel. If you want to be where all the TON fans are, this is the place to be. So what was your keynote all about? Our keynote is how we need to easily onboard these users into crypto, into DeFi, because there's a huge amount of users that are coming in. They're not all crypto savvy as we are. It's like, how can you make them?
Josh Kriger: So what are your thoughts on like Hamster Combat as an onboarding mechanism and what else should be done similar or different than that?
Martin Masser: I think Hamster Combat shows if you've got Something that gives people joy. Okay, that's what games are. You know, it's joy, you know, it's not an effort to do, it's nice and fun you're People playing it. I think the thing with hamster combat is you need to have that next step okay so it showed how can you onboard these users what is the next step and it didn't seem to be that huge next step as we've seen like telegram users have left it's dropped down however a lot more games are thinking this is a way to onboard and this is what we're doing
Josh Kriger: So, what are some of the other innovative projects that you're seeing at this conference in general? Obviously, we'll talk a little bit about Senpai, but more broadly speaking, what are you seeing in the space that has your eyes popping?
Martin Masser: You got here in a taxi, I'm assuming? I did. And that was a cream? Now, when you got here, had you been to Dubai before? Sure, many times. If you hadn't been to Dubai and you needed a cream, what would you have had to do?
Josh Kriger: download the app. So yeah, there is a Telegram ride share app. What's it called again? Tadah. Tadah, yeah. Talk about that, Tadah is cool anyway. Yeah, yeah, I used Tadah because I was on that influencer jet with Redacted and they had us use Tadah.
Martin Masser: So that was cool. I was in Singapore, okay, and I had to get there and I got there at the end and I was like, what do I do? And then someone said, just type Tadah in. It literally is that easy. Loads up. put in my destination, connected my Tom Wallet, okay, I was off. So the guy next to me, you know, on the plane, was still on the Wi-Fi, you know, that point one, downloading it. I let him share the taxi he was in, we were good to go, and then on the taxi on the way there, He was able to sort of download and that's how you onboard users. You show people how fun it really is.
Josh Kriger: So you're pretty deep in the TAN ecosystem. What percentage of users are using blockchain applications that are already using TAN? How much of a gap is there to close up?
Martin Masser: If you think about it, everyone near enough in the Hamster Combat got onboarded to crypto. Did they know it? Most of them probably didn't. I think what we need is that next step. With onboarding to crypto, how do you keep them there? Are people just there for the airdrop? You can onboard people anywhere by just giving them money. You need that next step of how to get people in. That was a great example. you'll always be using your crypto makes life easier makes life better you'll be playing games and there's a lot of ip that's coming okay so ip i think it's going to be 2025 traditional web 2 id or traditional ip come to web 3 engaging the users making people have fun and do it and enjoy in this.
Josh Kriger: So you guys are a DeFi platform that you can use fully on time. You don't have to like to go to a website or type it in.
Martin Masser: Well, this is the best thing. Okay, so website, telegram mini app, but This is what sets us apart, okay? And this is why we have so many users. We're integrated into so many TON applications and mini apps, okay? So again, you're using Stompify without knowing it. So we're in wallets, bots, but the key thing, games. So we have so many games that have integrated us. Imagine you get your tokens from, you know, the next game out there. A great example is Tapswap, with 18 million users. They have us as a DEX, but you might not even know it's a DEX. You get your tokens, you can buy more, sell more. You'll be using STONfire in the background, making it a lot simpler, easier, keeping those users in that.
Josh Kriger: So you're a B2B and a B2C solution.
Martin Masser: that's the best way to do it yeah you should do my promotion for me yeah they're totally that's exactly the way we're doing it so obviously b2b's we can get a lot more users by reaching out to some of the key places but obviously b2c we care about the consumers and the users more the crypto advanced ones when they want to do more advanced
Josh Kriger: So with regard to sort of DeFi, there's always this conversation about how much risk tolerance should the platform enable, like what's Storm5's perspective on that? What are some of the sort of more conservative and some of the more risky opporTONities that you can do with the product?
Martin Masser: So you can do straight swaps, so again it's like a traditional like Uniswap, but then I know like we were doing these farming pools so basically if you put two currencies together yeah you get liquidity provide but then if you put it in a farm it's an additional reward now I was dealing with very strong, big users, and they didn't know how to do this. Okay, they're big, very pro TON, and they're like, how do I follow my token? It's really complicated. It really is. But then when I told them, they're like, hang on a sec, I don't want to sell any of my TON to provide the other side. So we're doing single-sided liquidity, so you just have to stake. or provide one side of TON for that. So again, that's really exciting. That's cool. I haven't heard about that. But you have to realize this is the way we onboard more users. Simplify the process. Crypto is way too easy.
Josh Kriger: It needs to be easier. Let your TON maxis or ETH maxis just sort of provide what they already want to hold. That's pretty novel.
Martin Masser: Which brings me to my other point that we're doing with OmnisTON, it's cross-chain. Because you realize there's ETH maxis, there's Solana maxis, and the idea is getting them into the ecosystem as well. So if you've got your ETH and you want to come into a TONne meme coin, it's the one way that we get to do that.
Josh Kriger: Very cool. Well, this has been fun. Where can people go to follow you and where should they go to dive in more to what you guys are up to?
Martin Masser: Oh, that's a brilliant question. Feel free to follow me on X. I'm Martin at STON. That's M-A-R-T-I-N at A-T STON. Follow me there. You can see what I'm saying, obviously on LinkedIn as well and just around at all TON conferences. And it's sTON. Fi.fi.fi, that's easy. STONfi, sTON.fi.
Josh Kriger: How many fi domain handles are there? That's interesting. I didn't know it was even a domain.
Martin Masser: Learning something new. Josh, thanks so much for having me, man. It's great to have a great chat. It just feels fun. Thank you very much.
Josh Kriger: Cheers. Hi everyone, Josh Kriger, co-host of Edge of NFT, lives at the TON Gateway in Dubai. It's bustling here and I have a chance to chat with my new friend Dennis Denkelmeier, the CEO of Midas. Nice to have you on the show. Awesome to meet you, Josh.
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Thank you.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, yeah. So I understand we were chatting earlier, you just finished your raise. Congrats on that. And what are you building?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Midas is an asset tokenization project focused on stablecoins, specifically yield-bearing stablecoins. As you know, Tether and Circle are some of the largest companies in the space, but users don't earn any yield. So around $150 billion in stables sit there, not earning anything. Midas is here to change that. So we have two products, the first one being Mtibor, that's really a yield-bearing version of Tibor, so holders can hold the assets and earn 5% from the US treasuries. And the second one is Mbasis, which is a similar delta-dollar neutral product. It's a much more profitable and useless holder to earn 25% instead of 5%.
Josh Kriger: Wow, so that's a 25% yield on holding what currencies? Dollars.
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Dollar-denominated return, yeah.
Josh Kriger: So is that USDC, USDT? Correct, yeah. Okay, that's quite a sizable return. How do you give someone such a large return while managing the risk?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: of course very very important so there are risks and we can get can get to this later but most importantly what this strategy is it's a it's one of the most widely used strategies in this market so the basis trade is a very conventional and in the trade basically you take a long spot so you hold bitcoin long and you short the future typically the short holders paid a long a funding rate and that effectively provides leverage to the system. And because Bitcoin holders are really, really excited to stay long on Bitcoin, they're happy to pay you a return for that. And that return today is quite profitable because Bitcoin is going up and expectations are quite attractive. So what happens if Bitcoin starts going down? Yeah, very good question. So, the returns of the product might go down. So, instead of 25% and you make it at a minute, you might make 5% or temporarily the return even goes negative. However, the returns are fully hedged. So, the dollar value that you loan is fully hedged with a short on the same asset. So, even if the market goes down substantially, 30% assets, you don't lose your principal. The principal is fully hedged. There are risks. We can discuss it. For example, in crypto, you also have to be very careful around counterparty risks. You have to be very careful about execution risk and other considerations, but these are the main ones.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I think what you're talking about is sort of part of this evolution of DeFi. I don't know, are we in DeFi 3.0 or, you know, where are we in that sort of world? I'm curious, your perspective, like how have you seen DeFi generally evolve and, you know, to what extent can you manage risk? And I think, is there a wall at some point where there's just going to be some inherent risk?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: I think DeFi has gone through quite a lot of cycles, starting with ETHLAN three, four years ago, MECADA and other iterations. And actually, I think it's a super, super exciting proposition. DeFi is really the lifeblood of crypto. When you look at the Ethereum ecosystem, for example, it's really what drives a lot of users to crypto initially, because ultimately, it's one way you can earn high returns. And everybody in the world likes high returns on their crypto assets. There have been many evolutions. So I think at the moment, we see a trend for a lot of these protocols to become more capital efficient and more trade efficient. Obviously, I know you had Martin from Sun, they're working on some really exciting initiatives there. But I think we're around the 3.0 version of DeFi.
Josh Kriger: Well, and I guess just reflecting on sort of the industry and some of our more challenging times, you know, what are you doing from a compliance and from a risk management perspective? How have you sort of thought about that and built that into the product and into your team?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Well, thank you. That's a question actually near and dear to me. So I spent my entire background in traditional financial markets, the Goldman Sachs and Capri Group. And this has really been a core focus of mine from the beginning. And to be honest, also actually a big reason why I've stayed away from many activities in crypto in the past. So we got a license and a regulatory authorization from the regulator, the studio products. From what license? What regulator? From the Lichtenstein Regulator. That's passported across all of Europe. We can go into details of this, but really it's an area where we spend a lot of time on. The second one is not just the license of the regulator, but it's also around the structuring of a very high quality infrastructure and product. For example, our products are bankruptcy remote. That means in case of a bank run or a default of MIDAS, which is very unlikely, but in the case of what's to happen, there's a third party that seizes the assets and effectively protects the token holders. So very high quality of infrastructure and we're proud of it.
Josh Kriger: Very cool. So we're at Gateway. I know you're talking to folks about what you're building, but you're also having a chance to learn about what else is going on in the ecosystem. What have been some of the interesting projects that you'd like our listeners to be aware of and maybe that have caught your attention?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Yeah, so first of all, I am a huge Marxian TONe in Telegram. I think it's the most exciting trend in crypto. Why? Because realistically, when you look at the number of on-chain users and all of the other ecosystems, you maybe have a couple of million. Telegram today already has 10 million monthly active users.
And that's even if only the wallet was launched last year. That's only one year. UCT on TORN has already a million active wallets holding the assets, which is phenomenal growth. So I came to blockchain because effectively it allows the disintermediation, the wide open accessibility of high quality products for all users globally. And TORN is the only blockchain that really can do it. So if I can point you to one particular project, I still think TORN is very underrated. People don't understand it well enough, particularly in some of the Western regions. and I would point users to this. Within TORN, there are many great projects, for example, we've introduced it to our friends at EVA, we've introduced it to STONeFi, and obviously some of the larger accounts in the space, but super excited you could sustain.
Josh Kriger: Any games that you play, are you a gamer at all?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Obviously, first of all, I can plug in our own app, and users can find us in our mini-app, so you can touch the sTONe and turn it to gold. Oh, okay, there's a little bit of a gamification about this, of course. Of course, yeah. And goes without saying, some of the larger ones in the space are super exciting too. So, Hampstead, North Kowloon and others are super exciting.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, I got pretty high up the hamster combat food chain. And I have to say, I was a little disappointed with the airdrop. But when you have like 250 million people that are all participating, that's what happens. But really cool on them to build such a rapid community and create such a great user experience.
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Yeah, exactly. Which crypto project in the world can claim that they have airdropped the token to 100 million users? Nobody can do that. That's actually pretty phenomenal and we should really pinch ourselves on these numbers.
Josh Kriger: Yeah, it's incredible. So as we look ahead at sort of the TON ecosystem, it's not all roses. What do you think are some of the challenges that will have to be overcome?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Very good question. Very important question. I think number one, the ease of development is actually not the driver. So a lot of us have worked in the EVM. I hear it's pretty hard to develop on TON. Yeah, it's very good. I should say I'm not a developer, but a lot of my developers complain a lot. And they're like, what am I doing? Give me a raise. That's a very, very important point, but I'm very confident the team is sorting it out. I've actually already made a lot of great updates on this, so the programmability of smart contracts and other innovations that are coming. So I think it's a very, very important point. The second one, in my opinion, is that while user numbers are very high, I believe you, I think we still can do 10 times better than this, so I think we need to onboard a more diverse set of users. A lot of the users on Telegram actually are extremely from a handful of jurisdictions and geographies around the world. A lot of your friends in the U.S. probably can't use the Telegram wallet or the TORN blockchain unless we have VPNs, not for U.S. users. But actually... Not financial advice either. Not financial advice of course, but actually when I speak to a lot of my friends in the EVM ecosystem that have used Telegram for many years, they haven't used Telegram, they haven't used the Telegram wallet, they haven't used Horn. And when I send them UCT just as a fun, as a gimmick, many of them actually can't onboard to the wallet and haven't been able to successfully make the transition. I think you need to really focus on making the onboarding journey very easy for these markets, but I've been in touch with many of the people at the organization ecosystem here, and I'm very impressed with the pace of execution innovation.
Josh Kriger: Absolutely. And on your own roadmap, anything sort of the next quarter ahead that you're sort of doing that you're excited about you could share?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: Extremely excited. So we launched the Telegram Mini app. mass millions of users and the next step is that we make our products and tokens so MT-Bit and M-Basis accessible internally. We've already deployed those tokens actually as of last week and we're looking to integrate those tokens with just many of these great DeFi protocols, many of them we've discussed earlier in the show.
Josh Kriger: Cool. Well, exciting stuff. Thanks for spending a little time with us. If folks want to learn more about you or Midas, where do they, do you have an ex handle that they can follow you and your company?
Dennis Dinkelmeyer: My personal handle is, um, Dinklemeyer on, on Twitter and X, and you can find our website, www.midas.app. So you find all our docs online. All right. Thanks for hanging out today. Love it. Thank you.
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